Driver - High and Starts Left then Curves Right - Why?

[GolfGuy123]

So my miss with driver is a slice but I am also curious on what is happening with the shots that find fairway.

When I miss/ hit OB the ball usually starts out somewhat in the middle and slices / curves way right.

When I land in the fairway the ball is usually very high and starts out heading way left then curves / big fade right.

This seems like a natural relationship of what would happen (meaning my fairway finders still work to the right) but im wondering if its something where I should work on and accept that high left to right shot that finds the fairway (and just try to do it more consistently) OR if I need to completely change everything and NOT play a huge fade.

I have heard of good players, playing a fade with the driver but I doubt it's as big of a fade as mine. I would even venture to say some of my good shots (good defined as shots that land in fairway, not necessarily good swings etc) arent even fades..they are so left to right they can be like pull / slices that find the fairway lol.

Also any insight into the cause of this would be appreciated.

NOTES:

I have same issue with woods.

Yes, will be posting swing soon ;)

[David in FL]

Here's a great place to start.

http://thesandtrap.com/b/playing_tips/ball_flight_laws

You can also use the forum search function to find a lot of other relevant threads too.

[Ernest Jones]

Ball starts more or less where the face is pointing and curves away from the path so...

On the shots that pull-slice your club face is pointing left of the target at impact and your path is even further left than the face at impact.

On the shots that start roughly straight and then slice you've managed to get your face squarish at impact but because the path is still left it curves away from that path and slices OB.

If your path is the same in both swings and it's only your face that has changed then the straight slice will have considerably more curvature as the differential between face and path will be greater but I think it's unlikely that the path is constant and only the face has changed. I'm pretty sure that in most cases a change in path or face will have some degree of influence on each other unless you've manipulated the face through a static change in set-up ie : gripping the club with an open or shut club face at address.

I would start a "my swing" thread and post some driver swings, maybe you'll get lucky and get some good input. I'm not qualified to give any advice other than the factual stuff I've posted above.

Good luck.

[iacas]

@Ernest Jones going for gold in 2014!

Your swing path is well to the left (as you're a righty), or "out to in" or "INward."

On the "playable" shots you point the face a bit left of the target so the ball starts left. On the poor shots the face is pointing at the target, so it starts there and then curves well right.

The fix is to change your path, not to try to point the face more left (reduces loft, and who wants to play with a slice?).

[GolfGuy123]

Ball starts more or less where the face is pointing and curves away from the path so...

On the shots that pull-slice your club face is pointing left of the target at impact and your path is even further left than the face at impact.

On the shots that start roughly straight and then slice you've managed to get your face squarish at impact but because the path is still left it curves away from that path and slices OB.

If your path is the same in both swings and it's only your face that has changed then the straight slice will have considerably more curvature as the differential between face and path will be greater but I think it's unlikely that the path is constant and only the face has changed. I'm pretty sure that in most cases a change in path or face will have some degree of influence on each other unless you've manipulated the face through a static change in set-up ie: gripping the club with an open or shut club face at address.

I would start a "my swing" thread and post some driver swings, maybe you'll get lucky and get some good input. I'm not qualified to give any advice other than the factual stuff I've posted above.

Good luck.

Thank You.

Actually, on average my straight slice does have significantly more curvature. Appreciate the reply.

@Ernest Jones going for gold in 2014!

Your swing path is well to the left (as you're a righty), or "out to in" or "INward."

On the "playable" shots you point the face a bit left of the target so the ball starts left. On the poor shots the face is pointing at the target, so it starts there and then curves well right.

The fix is to change your path, not to try to point the face more left (reduces loft, and who wants to play with a slice?).

Thank You.

Change path to "in to out" correct? I know there is a lot of drills for this but was not 100 percent sure this is was my issue.

Another Note: FWIW - I do not ever intentionally try to point the face to the left, although based on the descriptions it sounds like that is whats happening. You mention that reduces loft, but for these "playable shots" im talking about, the ball actually goes very high. Not sure if that is relevant or not but just wanted to mention. Appreciate it.

[iacas]

Another Note: FWIW - I do not ever intentionally try to point the face to the left, although based on the descriptions it sounds like that is whats happening. You mention that reduces loft, but for these "playable shots" im talking about, the ball actually goes very high. Not sure if that is relevant or not but just wanted to mention. Appreciate it.

Done properly it will reduce loft.

You're teeing the ball up so you're flipping at it. That not only closes the face but adds loft. The shots you play with a better "Key #3" (closer to inline impact) are your straight slices.

So you need to work on Keys 3 and 4 (and probably 1 and most likely 2 as well).

[dchoye]

I suspect that the major difference between a "cut" that the pros play and the common slice that new players hit with the driver is the angle of attack is downward with the slice and with the cut the angle of attack is upward. I pretty sure that they are both out to in at about the same degrees. I dont have any trackman numbers. But if anyone can produce the numbers I like to confirm that hypothesis.

[saevel25]

I suspect that the major difference between a "cut" that the pros play and the common slice that new players hit with the driver is the angle of attack is downward with the slice and with the cut the angle of attack is upward. I pretty sure that they are both out to in at about the same degrees. I dont have any trackman numbers. But if anyone can produce the numbers I like to confirm that hypothesis.

Not really, its just the difference between path and clubface is much greater for an amateur. The playable shot patterns are a pull cuts, and a push draws.

Actually Its tougher to hit up on the ball with a push draw than it is with a pull cut, just because the club swings on an arc. Meaning the outside-in portion will be going upward because the hands travel down around and back up, so they pull the club up as the clubhead goes inward. So really most people who just move the ball forward, and change nothing but increase the angle of attack for a driver will hit a straight cut, or a slight pull cut. The video by James on how to hit a push draw shows how he aligns the body to force more of an outward path, so that the driver can hit up on the ball more.

As for irons, all pros hit down with the irons.

[Jobby Bones]

I suspect that the major difference between a "cut" that the pros play and the common slice that new players hit with the driver is the angle of attack is downward with the slice and with the cut the angle of attack is upward. I pretty sure that they are both out to in at about the same degrees. I dont have any trackman numbers. But if anyone can produce the numbers I like to confirm that hypothesis.

This is the way I have always felt too.  Pro's definitely have a shallower angle of attack than amateurs and when I see my buddies slice it, its always because they pick the club way up with their arms and slam it down on the ball.  Doesn't D-plane have to do with this or something?

[joekelly]

I would say this OP chap needs to get his lower body in gear much more than he probably does now. Sounds like he is all upper body, shoulders and arms. This kind of action leads to chopping and round-house movements of the club resulting in consequences he described. If his hips are 'dead' then the shoulders, arms and club can't do the correct thing.

[GolfGuy123]

I would say this OP chap needs to get his lower body in gear much more than he probably does now. Sounds like he is all upper body, shoulders and arms. This kind of action leads to chopping and round-house movements of the club resulting in consequences he described. If his hips are 'dead' then the shoulders, arms and club can't do the correct thing.

You are completely right...the past two weeks I have been working a lot on my hip / lower body action with the driver / woods...trying to get the "feeling" like the arms are passive and lower body turn is doing most of the work and arms are just along for the ride...anyways, after working on this a bunch at the range and then playing a round recently, I did not hit one ball OB! and NO slices! Every tee shot was either in the fairway or very playable rough area. A radical difference. I played the same ball the entire round...and I can not tell you when the last time I did that was!

I still shot a poor score, 99...but it was mostly due to a terrible day of short game and a handful of complete mishits with irons from the fairway...

[dchoye]

This is the way I have always felt too.  Pro's definitely have a shallower angle of attack than amateurs and when I see my buddies slice it, its always because they pick the club way up with their arms and slam it down on the ball.  Doesn't D-plane have to do with this or something?

I think there maybe lots of way to slice. but when I see the pros intentional slice with the driver, it was driver off the deck with a ball below feet and ground sloping down and away from the body. There's no way one can have a positive angle of attack with that lie, I might be wrong, but that's why I what some trackman numbers of those who slice to confirm my hypothesis.