Are you considering " lofting up" ? Or what is all this lofting up I am hearing about ?

[Mr. Desmond]

I just finished writing this section in LSW - about how truly high "high launch" can seem.

I wrote about how I spent two days with the Titleist fitting van and they were constantly trying to get higher launch from people. These guys had 8.5 and even lower lofted drivers, and they kept trying to get them up in the air.

That was almost a decade ago.

The thing is, too - high launch and low spin works well for guys who swing 100 MPH or so… but plug in 22°, 2000 RPM spin, and 125 MPH ball speed and look at the carry numbers here http://flightscope.com/products/trajectory-optimizer/ and compare them to even 16° launch angle. I get an extra seven or eight yards.

So yes but no, @Mr. Desmond… because companies haven't actually made or truly "pushed" 12° drivers, 13° drivers, 14° drivers like TaylorMade is doing now. So yes, their fitters have tried to get people into higher lofts, but the manufacturers themselves have kept the CG back, because it improves "playability," and because consumers were not nearly as willing to consider lofting up, and if they did, the spin would be way too high with many other companies.

@iacas

Thanks for the link.

Agree -- and so many variables have changed over the years -- the club head and ball.

So yes, OEMs haven't actively pushed 12-14 degrees drivers -- even without the SLDR, many should have pushed those lofts depending on the club head design -- well, they probably were passively pushing it, but they were disguised as 10.5 lofts.

The SLDR is a game changer in a way -- an ultra low spin driver that helps with ball speed and tries to balance forgiveness. So if you want a SLDR that works, generally you need to go up in loft. For all drivers, jump on a LM with a decent ball.

Maybe the SLDR contribution will be that is makes golfers more aware that they must get fit by a professional.

[iacas]

I can tell you that of the hundreds of golfers we've put on the LM for a driver optimization, fewer than 10% launched the ball at more than 11°.

[saevel25]

I can tell you that of the hundreds of golfers we've put on the LM for a driver optimization, fewer than 10% launched the ball at more than 11°.

How much of that comes from hitting down on the driver as well

[WUTiger]

@iacas,

A few years back, small club shops were playing around with the Thriver, a cross between a 3 Wood and a Driver.

In 2011 Hireko came out with their version of the Thriver: a 460 cc. 14* head with a 44" shaft (short for more control). This represents an early version of "lofting up." (Story link below doesn't mention the VCOG or RCOG of the H.Thriver head).

http://www.worldgolf.com/golf-equipment/hireko-golf-acer-xf-thrivers-club-12317.htm

Your Flightscope link on trajectory optimizer points out that increasing center hits improves ball speed, and distance. So, the H.Thriver's 44" shaft would help some golfers with more center hits. Shaft length factors in as a case of long enough to get more distance, but short enough for control.

[iacas]

A few years back, small club shops were playing around with the Thriver, a cross between a 3 Wood and a Driver.

Yes, I remember. It was never that popular. And it didn't do a lot to cut the spin rate down. High launch, high spin is no good either.

In 2011 Hireko came out with their version of the Thriver: a 460 cc. 14* head with a 44" shaft (short for more control). This represents an early version of "lofting up." (Story link below doesn't mention the VCOG or RCOG of the H.Thriver head).

a) It still spun too much.

b) Nobody really cares about Hireko. It's taken one of the "big boys" to even make this a conversation.

Your Flightscope link on trajectory optimizer points out that increasing center hits improves ball speed, and distance.

That's not exactly news…

How much of that comes from hitting down on the driver as well

I'm not sure I can say "most" but I probably could.

[Jakester23]

I can tell you that of the hundreds of golfers we've put on the LM for a driver optimization, fewer than 10% launched the ball at more than 11°.

Would you say that's more because of the wrong equipment or bad technique or both?

[iacas]

Would you say that's more because of the wrong equipment or bad technique or both?

Both.

People seem to "feel" like a low drive is more powerful.

Maybe it literally is as simple as the fact that lower drives stay against a background (the grass and trees) longer, so they look like they're going faster than a ball against a solid blue sky or something.

[WUTiger]

Originally Posted by iacas

Quote:

Originally Posted by WUTiger

A few years back, small club shops were playing around with the Thriver, a cross between a 3 Wood and a Driver.

Yes, I remember. It was never that popular. And it didn't do a lot to cut the spin rate down. High launch, high spin is no good either.

Good point. Feedback on H.Thriver said it sacrificed some distance for accuracy. Author implied that it evened out, if shorter distance put you in fairway.

"Center hits increase ball speed" may not be news, but it's something average golfers forget about when they swing overly long shafts.

[iacas]

Good point. Feedback on H.Thriver said it sacrificed some distance for accuracy. Author implied that it evened out, if shorter distance put you in fairway.

Turns out golfers should rarely trade distance for accuracy.

[Jodastra]

Well my less than technical version of "Loft Up" goes like this...First few rounds of the year when my swing speed is low. I carry a Nike Dymo HL with an aldila nv65 stiff and a Lady machspeed HL w/ fubuki L flex both are at 14 deg. When things get crazy I Then typically go to my Titlesit 910 D2 with the 50 gr bassara stiff at 10.5 & the nike dymo, when the D2 gets silly, after a few rounds I go to my D3 w/motore f3 stiff. by the next few rounds(okay say round 20 for he year) I am up to my nike Dymo str8 fit w/voodoo 7 X-stiff & TM Burner 2.0 rombax x-stiff both 9.5 loft. as I go through my driver progression I tend to "Flex Up" and "loft down" to keep my drives where I like them. So as a tool to help I bought an SLDR 430 tp 10.5 w/ phenom Beta 70 stiff. I hit it the other day, and got the low boring, short flight I expected from it's factory setting and my post hibernation swing speed. So I shall "Loft Up"(with the SLDR) and probably eliminate 3 drivers from the progression and give my wife her driver back, and wait for he next great thing from TM.

[BENtSwing]

Ok...well...I'm even more confused now. I just got fitted for a 913 D2 a couple weeks ago and love it, so I'll just ignore 'loft-up' and SLDR. Ignorance is bliss lol

[Robi1026]

How much of that comes from hitting down on the driver as well

Matt you beat me to it!!!

I'm actually "Lofting Down" / I'm currently gaming a driver between 9 & 8 degrees / Used to game a 10.5 - After video evidence (lesson I had) - I am definitely hitting up on the ball - sometimes too much - Launch angle was between 12 & 14 - with an average of 2400 spin rate - 260+ carry with a ton of roll = AWESOME

Rob

[iacas]

I'm actually "Lofting Down" / I'm currently gaming a driver between 9 & 8 degrees / Used to game a 10.5 - After video evidence (lesson I had) - I am definitely hitting up on the ball - sometimes too much - Launch angle was between 12 & 14 - with an average of 2400 spin rate - 260+ carry with a ton of roll = AWESOME

Could you define "too much"?

Have you played with the FlightScope Optimizer thing above?

[Robi1026]

Could you define "too much"?

Have you played with the FlightScope Optimizer thing above?

Sorry for the vague comment ...  I was referring to the ball position being too far forward and me "scooping" a bit "too much" - At least that's what my instructor said yesterday ...

No, I have not played with the optimizer but I will be looking into it ..

Thanks!

Rob

[iacas]

Sorry for the vague comment ...  I was referring to the ball position being too far forward and me "scooping" a bit "too much" - At least that's what my instructor said yesterday ...

Oh. I was hoping you had an actual number. Like +8 or something.

Anything between -5 and +5 is within normal bounds. Long drivers are +8 to +9 or so.

[flopster]

I recently was on a monitor with a RBZ stage 2 TM  at 10.5* 70 gram shaft, I recall my numbers falling somewhere about 13* launch and 2300 total spin, I'm aware these places are in the business of selling clubs but the swing speed averaged very accurate right at 100 mph IMO. Are these good numbers to shoot for and should I get rid of my other driver, it's a RBZ also but not the tour model and it's set at 9.5* with a 60 gram shaft plus I had them put quite a bit of lead tape on it to match my previous drivers swing weight, I really regret making that change and I know I'll never get my old driver back but I think if I could find a SLDR at 10.5* with the 70 gram shaft I would be real happy.

[Robi1026]

Oh. I was hoping you had an actual number. Like +8 or something.

Anything between -5 and +5 is within normal bounds. Long drivers are +8 to +9 or so.

Sorry for the lack of empirical data ... I will ask next lesson for a concrete number.

If -5 to +5 is normal & LD's are 8+ ... Is there a happy medium for me? Driver SS = 110-115

Rob

[amac]

Why all the buzz about the SLDR this year?  This driver came out last year and some local golf shops said it wasn't getting the traction on tour that TM hoped.  What changed?

As for lofting up, is this targeting the 90% of golfers who don't break 100?  Do swing mechanics prevent high HC's golfers from getting drivers airborne?  I'm not a great golfer, but I hit a fairly high ball.  I fight the high launch due to the wind and soggy nature of my home course.  I swing an R1 set at 9.5u.  After reading all the posts, I feel compeled to get on a track man and look at what type of spin numbers I get.  I'm more willing to tinker with what I've got and consider a new shaft before eating a loss and ponying up another $400.

As for Pro's lofting up, they have a distinct advantage of knowing how to flight down their shots.  Most amateur's don't.  I'd hate to have a 12* setting and then be looking dead into a 15mph wind and launch a baloon!  On a side note, I did notice that all the TM guys have switch to the SLDR.  And Luke Donald dumped his Mizuno driver and 3 wood for the SLDR and a Rocketballz 3 wood.