Is Golf a Sport or a Game?

[Jeepthrills]

This debate was actually on the radio in Detroit today. They were talking about NASCAR drivers, but golfers were brought into it too. I heard a great definition of an athlete. When something you do with your body be it swinging a club, throwing a ball or driving a car at 200 mph directly effects the outcome of a competition then it is a sport and you are an athlete.

[iacas]

I respectfully disagree, Erik.

So be it. You won't convince me that driving a machine makes someone an athlete.

The jocks are fit and very athletic.

Again, a fireman must be in incredible shape and must be quite "athletic," but that doesn't make him "an athlete." My own opinion is that the true athletes in horse racing are the horses.

When something you do with your body ... directly effects the outcome of a competition then it is a sport and you are an athlete.

So the Miss America contestants are athletes?

They're in a competition and what they do with their body matters, eh? Are rock climbers athletes? They often aren't really competing in anything (I suppose you could say they're competing against the mountain or their previous best time). Are dancers athletes or artists? Or both? What about someone who plays darts? I'd have a hard time classifying most darts players as athletes - wouldn't you? The point is I could probably come up with things to defeat any argument - as could each of you. There's no one answer to this for everyone - the idea that someone is or isn't an athlete is a personal opinion. I'm comfortable with mine.

[NM Golf]

Racecar drivers and motocross riders are two different things. Motocross is much more athletic. Horseracing is more athletic, too, than racecar driving. Motocross and horseracing takes a great deal of balance, stamina, upperbody, and leg strength. Racecar drivers are not athletes, Motocross riders yes, jockeys well maybe. Golfers, yes. IMHO

[Jeepthrills]

I would say golfers are athletes. Being in good shape and being an athlete don't necessarily have to be the same thing.

I'm not a racing snob, but Tony Stewart has driven in the Indy 500 in the afternoon, then jumped on a plane to drive in the NASCAR race that night. Several others have tried, but he finished top 10 in both on the same day. He also wins the road races on the NASCAR circut.

[ettsn]

Racecar drivers and motocross riders are two different things. Motocross is much more athletic. Horseracing is more athletic, too, than racecar driving. Motocross and horseracing takes a great deal of balance, stamina, upperbody, and leg strength. Racecar drivers are not athletes, Motocross riders yes, jockeys well maybe. Golfers, yes. IMHO

Which is why I included them. According to Erik's definition, they are not (since the motorcycle is doing the "work"). My point was, it's hard to tell me a motorcross rider isn't an athlete. Same is true for an F1 driver (did you watch any of the links I posted?). I can tell you that I'm more tired after an hour in a racecar (and I'm not driving

anything as demanding as a Formula car) than four hours on a golf course, and a helluva lot more sore the next day at my ever increasing age. For that matter, one could argue that the club does much of the work of golf, no? Nobody alive could throw a golfball 1000 feet, could they? Yet golfers use this simple machine (a wedge -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wedge_%28mechanics%29 ) to do this somewhat routinely. Is this less of a machine, because it doesn't use petrochemicals? At what point does it defy athletics? And remember what Ernest Hemingway said about it: "Auto racing, bullfighting and mountain climbing are the only real sports... all others are games."

[waynem80]

IMO i think it's a given that they are, but not everyone see's it that way. tiger stood up for this a while back.

[iacas]

I can tell you that I'm more tired after an hour in a racecar (and I'm not driving

Again, a lot of people are tired at the end of their work days. A lumberjack, for example, probably isn't an athlete but sure can get tired.

For that matter, one could argue that the club does much of the work of golf, no?

No, they couldn't. The ball traveling is a reaction to the work, not the work performed. The work performed in golfing is swinging the club.

See what I'm saying? It's easy to find fault with any explanation. To each his own (definition), I say. What more is there to say?

[NM Golf]

Which is why I included them. According to Erik's definition, they are not (since the motorcycle is doing the "work"). My point was, it's hard to tell me a motorcross rider isn't an athlete. Same is true for an F1 driver (did you watch any of the links I posted?). I can tell you that I'm more tired after an hour in a racecar (and I'm not driving

Motorcross guys are athletes because of the amount of physical force and strength they must put on the motorcycles to make them perform. I don't believe that is true in car racing. I don't think any "sport" can be done in a true sitting position. Maybe thats it, one thing that disqualifies someone as being an athlete is if their chosen activity can be successfully accomplished while in the seated position.

For that matter, one could argue that the club does much of the work of golf, no? Nobody alive could throw a golfball 1000 feet, could they? Yet golfers use this simple machine (a wedge --

Lots of club like apperatuses are used in sport. So baseball isn't a sport now? A simple thing like a golf club, cannot be compared to the complex engine of a car. That is a ridiculous argument I am sorry. Yes a golf club is much less of a machine than a racecar. I am sorry, I am much more willing to agree with Erik about this entire thing, and to each their own.

[ettsn]

Again, a lot of people are tired at the end of their work days. A lumberjack, for example, probably isn't an athlete but sure can get tired.

Don't tell these guys that:

[JustMe]

So be it. You won't convince me that driving a machine makes someone an athlete.

Have you ever ridden a horse? Have you ever negotiated a 1200 pound animal over five foot jumps with four foot spreads? Have you ever ran a mile on a horse? If not...then I'd have a hard time believing that you would know what it requires to do so. Let me put this in a simple way....just because you may not see what's going on with the rider and horse, that doesn't mean the rider is not communicating with the horse. One slight move of your pinkie, or just a bit more outside leg and the horse and rider are talking, we're just not vocal about it...and you my dear just can't see it. Bottom line is it takes skill and strength, and a heck of a lot of work. Which in my opinion is an athlete.

[gbk56]

Not all PGA golfers are athletes, although there are some that are athletes. It is just like not all baseball players are athletes (I've seen some pitchers unbale to adequately go through a simple obstacle course). Some may be able to perform some athletic movements, but I think an athlete has great coordination, balance, endurence, dexterity which would allow them to play almost any sport. I believe a lot of PGA golfers could not compete in other sports very well because although they have mastered and fine tuned their golf swings, they don't have the skills to excell at other sports. Of course some, like Tiger, could have probaly played any sport, but just happend to have more of an interest in golf.

[FIJIGolf23]

Have you ever ridden a horse? Have you ever negotiated a 1200 pound animal over five foot jumps with four foot spreads? Have you ever ran a mile on a horse? If not...then I'd have a hard time believing that you would know what it requires to do so. Let me put this in a simple way....just because you may not see what's going on with the rider and horse, that doesn't mean the rider is not communicating with the horse. One slight move of your pinkie, or just a bit more outside leg and the horse and rider are talking, we're just not vocal about it...and you my dear just can't see it.

I've ridden a horse, ran a mile on a horse, been thrown from a horse, etc. It doesn't take an athlete to do so. No offense.

[JustMe]

I've ridden a horse, ran a mile on a horse, been thrown from a horse, etc. It doesn't take an athlete to do so. No offense.

No offense taken.

[Roody]

Hey guys,

A friend of mine and I have this long-standing debate going. He insists that golf should not be classified as a "sport", but instead should be considered a "competition". Our little debate has raged back and forth for a while now, with neither side budging.

He states that an example of a sport is football or baseball - something where you need to be in good shape, and actually involves some running and athletic prowess. He also argues that golf has the likes of Craig Stadler and John Daly, and if they can be good at golf then it can't be considered a sport.

My counter-arguments usually involve something with Tiger Woods, and how good an athlete he is. Also I've said that the golf swing requires athletic prowess, to which he usually pulls the Daly/Stadler argument out of his a$$ to counter that with. I also argue that if you're considering golf a "competition" then that automatically qualifies it as a sport since they are essentially one and the same.

So what do you guys think? I thought this might be a good debate. That, and I'm looking for some ammunition to use against my friend.

[$2 Nassau]

No, it's an addiction.

Seriously though, I have no problem when people refuse to recognize golf as a sport, but the arguement about John Daly and Stadler, etc, etc holds no water. Look at some of the fat offensive linemen in football...these guys can barely run at all, they're huffing and puffing the entire game then running over to the sideline for oxygen. Look at baseball players like David Wells....remember Cecil Fielder? In every sport you can find guys that are "out of shape."

So just because there are a few fatties on the golf course does not necessarily mean it's not a sport.

[Undr Par]

I have the same issue with buddies of mine who played baseball and now play softball (as did I at 1 time) and the reason I think they say Golf isn't a sport is cause they aren't good at it, or just don't play it.

Have you ever seen a person who plays Golf faithfully say Golf wasn't a sport? I haven't

[$2 Nassau]

I have the same issue with buddies of mine who played baseball and now play softball (as did I at 1 time) and the reason I think they say Golf isn't a sport is cause they aren't good at it, or just don't play it.

Great point. I was just about to edit my original post and add something regarding this. I assume that Roody's friend doesn't play golf.

I've noticed that many (not all) non-golfers seem to jump at the chance to bash golf and golfers. The "not a sport" thing is usually the first to come up. Why they care so much is beyond me. I imagine they probably tried to play, swung and missed a couple times and then basically dismissed the game as foolish.

[Logie]

I have always classed it as a sport. I would certainly rank it about Baseball as a sport.

For me, Baseball is one of the biggest crock of shite sports i have ever watched. But thats still a sport? They spend most there time just standing around, with a pitch every minute, then something happens for 30 seconds. Either the batter hits the ball and it goes to x position, or its a strike etc....

Actually, it sounds similar to Golf! its just not a pitcher throwing the golf ball at the player!

You still have to train to play Golf. I dont think anyone has ever just picked up the club and shot under par have they. There is some degree of athleticism in the game too. Im by no means fit, and yestaday i felt the effects in playing 18 in the hot sun.

Tiger is at the top of Golf in regards to training fitness wise, and its a major reason why hes currently top of the game.

There so many arguments out there. Football (Soccer) for example. They just kick a ball around, Cricket. Ball is thrown, batter trys to hit it. After that play stops for a bit untill the next ball is ready to be thrown.

I think the main reason soem dont consider it a sport is because it never really started as a sport. It was a Gentlemans game, or Lesuire activity really when it was first invented. Alot of sports where started by other sports E.G. Rugby