Is Golf a Sport or a Game?

[tigerwoo]

I had a debate with a few friends who don't golf and generally they think that PGA Tour golfers are a bunch of unfit people who couldn't make it in any other sport so they chose golf as their profession. Obviously Tiger Woods (and a whole slew of others) are the exception but they obviously see the likes of John Daly, Craig Stadler, 'Lumpy' and some LPGA professionals (Laura Davies comes to mind) that has impacted their judgement.

Regardless of how these people 'look' I truly feel that they are all athletes and if they had picked another sport such as baseball or even hockey they'd be pros at that too! Golf is definitely not a sport where your heart rate is elevated to fat burning levels but does a sport have to be?

I once saw John Daly throw a golf ball at one of those glass targets you need to break on 'Big Break' and he had an arm that I thought could have passed for Roger Clemens!? Back in the day I played baseball, the best players/athletes were the pitchers. Ok, maybe I'm pushing it but it is still very evident that John Daly is indeed an athlete... or at least at the bare minimum althletic despite his beer belly. He even hit the target glass and shattered it on his first throw!? He missed it on all previous attempts with his golf club... so perhaps he actually missed his true calling?

I also know alot of people who were never athletes in school nor are they athletic individuals who play golf and when they swing a golf club this fact usually becomes very evident. The swing is either too mechanical or very unnatural. Many of have loads of determination and can be good golfers but you know a good 'natural' swing when you see one. Not to say of course that the golf swing is a natural movement!

Any thoughts?

[iacas]

Obviously Tiger Woods (and a whole slew of others) are the exception but they obviously see the likes of John Daly, Craig Stadler, 'Lumpy' and some LPGA professionals (Laura Davies comes to mind) that has impacted their judgement.

Small nit to pick: I don't see Tiger Woods as the exception, but rather the rule. JD and Tim Herron are the exceptions these days.

For me, the answer is very simple: they are performing a complex physical move in playing a game or sport. They're athletes. A horse jockey is still considered by many to be an athlete. And a pro bowler. Anyway, ask your friends to define "athlete" and see if they can come up with a definition that excludes golfers without excluding other "obvious" athletes.

[NM Golf]

If fat people (Daly, Lumpy, etc) aren't athletes then neither are offensive lineman in the NFL. Golfers are very much indeed athletes, and golf is very much indeed a sport.

[T.J.K.]

That's tough for me. I don't really consider golf a sport, just a perfected hobby.

I do think most golfers are athletic, and the more athletic you are the better you can be, so I guess I would consider them athletes.

[dwsell]

Yes, they are athletes. They might not all be fantastic athletes, but they are athletes. If you are out of shape it doesn't mean you aren't athletic.

However, NASCAR drivers I will not consider athletes. Driving is not an athletic move, sitting in an uncomfortable seat in high temps for a couple hours, is not an athletic move.

[Everardo]

Technically yes.

a person trained or gifted in exercises or contests involving physical agility, stamina, or strength; a participant in a sport, exercise, or game requiring physical skill.

[gotgolf?]

Yes, they are athletes. They might not all be fantastic athletes, but they are athletes. If you are out of shape it doesn't mean you aren't athletic.

I am not a fan of NASCAR either. However, I must disagree with you when you say driving is not an althetic move. It requires very acute reflexes and split second decision making/calculating and translate that into dialed in adjustments of throttle, steering, clutch(for manual), braking etc. Great driving cannot be done by just anyone and requires good instincts as well.

I believe that great natural aestheticism comes from finely honed primitive instincts. Also make note of how in shape F1 drivers must be. To control a Renault, Ferrari or Toyota at speeds in excess of 300kph around Albert Park, a driver needs four physical attributes. The first is an aerobic capacity that enables him to perform for one hour and 40 minutes while his heart is pounding at about 180 beats per minute. David Coulthard, the oldest man on the Albert Park grid, has a resting rate of about 40 beats per minute, a figure normally associated with endurance cyclists and runners. The second is neck strength, to withstand up to 25kg of sideways force, on every corner, through a 58-lap race. The third is sufficient strength through the arms and chest to control the wheel. The fourth is the leg power to provide 80kg downward pressure each time you brake. Beyond this, however, a driver needs something else. "It is not only the physical stress but the brain stress," Ceccarelli explained. "A driver's brain has to run faster than his car, which is more than 300kmh, with no rest. That makes this sport very difficult." (taken from http://sportsci.blogspot.com/2007/06...1-drivers.html ) I would have to say that racing is a dialed down 2 dimensional version of flying a jet fighter, which I must says takes great altheticism.

[jaqattack02]

I would say golfers are athletes. Being in good shape and being an athlete don't necessarily have to be the same thing.

As far as NASCAR goes, they may be athletes, but I still have a lot less respect for them compared to other race drivers. I just can't see where they are in the same league as F1 drivers, rally drivers, or other drivers that do more than make left turns all afternoon, in terms of driving skill. Although some NASCAR drivers do participate in other racing events outside of NASCAR. Also, from what I've heard, the physical demands of driving a NASCAR car are much less than that of an F1 car, which is what the above blog post is referring to.

[Heat]

i think the fact that we are all golfers makes this a little biased...and I agree I don't see a Nascar Driver as an athlete.

[ettsn]

However, NASCAR drivers I will not consider athletes. Driving is not an athletic move, sitting in an uncomfortable seat in high temps for a couple hours, is not an athletic move.

That's extremely hypocritical, I think. Clearly, you've never actually

driven a racecar.

[Brandonink2001]

PRO golfers and tournament golfers are athletes.

Walking 18 holes (or more) four days in a row on PGA style courses is quite difficult. As a former college wrestler and still-avid racquetball player and jogger, I volunteered for a PGA Tour event in Williamsburg Virginia for years as a standard bearer.

Not only did I have to work to keep up with the fast-walking, focused pros and their caddies (now THERE is an athlete) on the steeply pitched course for five hours, it tested my cardio and leg strength more than I care to admit. Other PGA Tour stops I have visited offer equally challenging terrain. And once the golfer climbs that 30 degree incline, he has to hit a world class golf shot. 70 times in a row.

If you have only experienced golf on a course by cart, you haven't really experienced the physical challenge of golf.

[dwsell]

That's extremely hypocritical, I think. Clearly, you've never actually

You are right I have never driven a racecar and my opinion is based just on observation, but I do not see how that makes me an extreme hypocrite.

I was also just talking about NASCAR. I just don't see an athletic movement involved, I see it as more of a skill.

[iacas]

I don't consider NASCAR drivers athletes. For that matter, I don't really consider jockeys athletes either.

Why?

For me, it's a simple matter of answering this question: what's doing the actual work? In horse racing it's the horse (and THEY are most definitely athletes). In NASCAR, it's the car.

If a NASCAR driver is an athlete, what about the members of his pit crew? Are they athletes? They have to be fit, strong, and fast too. I don't think they are - and I can't get away from the fact that there's a big freakin' engine pulling the driver around.

In every other athletic endeavor tied to a sport that I can think of (even something like windsurfing... sailing maybe not...), the athlete does most of the work, not another animal or a machine.

You've got to be pretty strong, mentally and physically, to be a fireman, too, but that doesn't make firemen athletes. They're athletic, but I wouldn't call them athletes.

Golfers have a tool (the club), but they do all the "work." Baseball players have mitts, but they still run, catch, and throw. And on down the line.

I'm not denying that driving a race car is hard work or exhausting. But for me, it doesn't quite qualify as "athletic" work.

That's me, and frankly, my own opinions differ from the very straight-laced definition of "athlete," which would include a NASCAR driver, I think.

[golfchief]

I think to be an Athlete you must play a game against another person or team. Being an a star in one game does not make you a star in another,ie
charles Barkley, still he is entertaining.

[iacas]

I think to be an Athlete you must play a game against another person or team. Being an a star in one game does not make you a star in another,ie

PGA Tour golfers regularly compete against 143 other players. So...?

[Big Lex]

Yeah, there are athletic aspects to many things, but to be an athlete "qua athlete," I think one's own body movement has to be the central thing goin' on.

NASCAR is in part athletic, in part video game type decision-making/reflex activity, part guts and bravery...But I would agree NASCAR drivers aren't athletes in the strict definition.

Saddle racing, that's tough...the horse is the "central thing goin' on," but I think both the horse and jockey _combine_ to form the "athlete" there. The range of athletic challenge is different and unique in saddle racing, but the horses absolutely can't do it on their own, and the physical challenge is allegedly a good deal more than many people realize.

How about fishing?

Alas, that cultural phenomenon Wikipedia, disagrees with us, however. Wikipedia defines athlete as "any person who participates regularly in a sport." Sport is defined as "an activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively. Sports commonly refer to activities where the physical capabilities of the competitor are the sole or primary determiner of the outcome (winning or losing), but the term is also used to include activities such as mind sports and motor sports where mental acuity or equipment quality are major factors."

By these broad definitions, the drivers, jockeys, and competitive eaters are all athletes. Ugh.

[ettsn]

I respectfully disagree, Erik. Another good example is motocross. Yes, the motorcycle is indeed doing the "work" of going faster, but the sheer athleticism involved -- these guys have strength, flexibility and endurance beyond what almost any other sport would require. I would put them right up there with professional bicyclists in terms of sheer athleticism (and please spare us the doping references). And F1 requires drivers fit at a level you likely wouldn't expect. These guys spend 3-4 hours a day in the gym, and have incredible anerobic endurance. I'd even bet your typical F1 driver could outpace anyone in the PGA (yes, even Tiger) on a treadmill or swimming laps.

Check out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJRk98CYU4U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KL5pCs-1IJ8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ww5XDbBvTFs

[JustMe]

I don't consider NASCAR drivers athletes.

So, so wrong. I'm sorry, I ride show horses. I have sat on a 1000 # horse that is galloping at 25mph, and that's slow, with my knees up to my chin. You as the rider must move with the horse, steer, and be able to stop said equine. Trust me, I've seen some rank horses at the track that stand up, buck, and run away with their riders. The jocks are fit and very athletic. I agree that golfers are athletes. My kid plays 6 days a week walking, and is at the gym 4 days a week because his pro wants him there working on certain things. My kid is fit and trim, and IMHO is very athletic.