How do you get into the low 80's from roughly the high 80's and low 90's?

[RFKFREAK]

You can swing down and into the Durapro. When I use a marker I darken the face all the way to the bottom. The mat will wipe it away where the face travels through the mat. Honestly I'd rather practice on mats than grass.

So, you feel that and using the blue painters tape will give you a true indicator of whether you're striking the ball in the sweet spot and not give you a false impression?

The Durapro is good enough if you don't need to hit off grass. I only hit off grass or create grass like conditions because my main issue has been getting my weight forward. Maybe you don't have the same problems I do, and can get away with a standard mat.

Yeah, when I first began using Evolvr in Feb., I was asked to work on Key 4, then Key 1, and in my swing thread ( http://thesandtrap.com/t/70159/my-swing-rfkfreak/36#post_982972 ) Mike suggested working on Key 2.

I think I said this earlier but during my practice yesterday it felt like I was striking the ball well so I want to see how I'll do on the grass.  Hopefully I'll strike the ball equally as well.  If not, I'll have to do a lot of stuff that she'll want me to do that I don't want to do if she agrees to letting me dig a 6" hole.  Haha.

[Dave2512]

So, you feel that and using the blue painters tape will give you a true indicator of whether you're striking the ball in the sweet spot and not give you a false impression?

Nothing to do with sweet spot, the tape is on the mat. Basically a line on the mat to indicate whether or not you are hitting ball first. Hit behind it where the tape is mat first and the club removes the tape. Not my idea, everyone has some version of it. Don't even need a ball, don't need tape. Put a line down on grass or sand and try to take divots on the target side. I only mentioned it because someone mentioned mats mask fats shots, my experience is they don't. Either you are or you're not but if you need a visual put something on the mat to show you, some use tape others use powder. I can tell by the sound. Just like a good shot sounds different on grass. Not the best example but you'll get the idea, the white line would be the tape.

[amac]

Breaking into the low 80's, high 70's is not easy to do consistently if your skill level isn't there.  I play with a group of guys that range from 8 - 18.  I've seen the 13 and up handicap's shoot low 80's every now and then, but not on any consistent basis.  They simply don't have the swing that can produce the same shot over and over.  So my first piect of advice is to self assess your swing skill level.  If it's not where you want it, take lessons. You can practice all you want on that 150 yard and in shot, but if your swing isn't fundamentally correct, you're not improving.  Check out the 5 Simple Keys as a starting point.  Once you have your swing in order, then practice your short game. I can cover 550 yards in two shots, but can take 3 to get in from 20 ft! LOL.

My personal opinion is that golf is a game of misses.  How bad your misses will depend how bad you score.  The better my misses are, the better my score is because I haven't put myself in jail.  My escape shot and or short game takes over and I'm able to turn bogey into par or double into bogey.  Hope this helps.

[RFKFREAK]

Nothing to do with sweet spot, the tape is on the mat. Basically a line on the mat to indicate whether or not you are hitting ball first. Hit behind it where the tape is mat first and the club removes the tape. Not my idea, everyone has some version of it. Don't even need a ball, don't need tape. Put a line down on grass or sand and try to take divots on the target side. I only mentioned it because someone mentioned mats mask fats shots, my experience is they don't. Either you are or you're not but if you need a visual put something on the mat to show you, some use tape others use powder. I can tell by the sound. Just like a good shot sounds different on grass. Not the best example but you'll get the idea, the white line would be the tape.

Well, for the sweet spot I meant that as in, using the marker to darken the face all the way to the bottom.

As for the painters tape, you'll have to forgive me as I'm a bit confused.  I drew the diagram below to maybe help me understand.  The arrow points to the direction of my net.  Would you use A, B, or C as to where to place the ball (presumably I put the tape down in the correct location).

[Lihu]

Well, for the sweet spot I meant that as in, using the marker to darken the face all the way to the bottom.

As for the painters tape, you'll have to forgive me as I'm a bit confused.  I drew the diagram below to maybe help me understand.  The arrow points to the direction of my net.  Would you use A, B, or C as to where to place the ball (presumably I put the tape down in the correct location).

Put the arrow in the opposite direction on diagram A or B or something in between, and avoid hitting the painters tape.

[RFKFREAK]

Put the arrow in the opposite direction on diagram A or B or something in between, and avoid hitting the painters tape.

Really?

I thought that the idea was to peel the tape up if you hit it fat.

[Lihu]

Really?

I thought that the idea was to peel the tape up if you hit it fat.

Right, so if you put the tape behind the ball you don't want to hit the tape. If you put it in the direction you have it, that's your "perfect" divot.

[Dave2512]

Look at the above picture. See the white line at 90 degrees with divots on both sides, that is your tape line. You don't want to hit the tape.

Target   Side

O=ball

Don't hit this side

[RFKFREAK]

Right, so if you put the tape behind the ball you don't want to hit the tape. If you put it in the direction you have it, that's your "perfect" divot.

Look at the above picture. See the white line at 90 degrees with divots on both sides, that is your tape line. You don't want to hit the tape.

Target   Side

O=ball

Don't hit this side

Durr...I'm an idiot.  Makes sense now.

If you hit it fat, the club will scrape the tape and make a mark.

[Dave2512]

Durr...I'm an idiot.  Makes sense now.

If you hit it fat, the club will scrape the tape and make a mark.

Right it will actually be stuck to the club. If I use a marker it's just to see where the ball is coming off the face. Really a different thing for different drills but it start to leave a dark mark where the divot would be if not on a mat. I had to start using tape with weight forwards drills because I had a tendency to whack the club into the ground when I did it wrong. It was just a reminder to keep me from doing drills incorrectly in the beginning. But with full swings you will definitely remove the tape if you flip or don't get weight forward.

[RFKFREAK]

Right it will actually be stuck to the club. If I use a marker it's just to see where the ball is coming off the face. Really a different thing for different drills but it start to leave a dark mark where the divot would be if not on a mat. I had to start using tape with weight forwards drills because I had a tendency to whack the club into the ground when I did it wrong. It was just a reminder to keep me from doing drills incorrectly in the beginning. But with full swings you will definitely remove the tape if you flip or don't get weight forward.

Wait.  Is painter's tape double sided or do you put the sticky part facing up because I can't think of any other way it will stick to the club if you hit it fat.

[Dave2512]

No just regular one sided tape sticky side down on the mat. It doesn't stick well to mats hit behind it just a little and it will peel and stick to the club. Easy to remove but a good enough reason to not hit it for me. I've used talc lines too but it flies everywhere. Not good in the basement.

[Ernest Jones]

Wait.  Is painter's tape double sided or do you put the sticky part facing up because I can't think of any other way it will stick to the club if you hit it fat.

Not dbl sided, it'll just scrap off and stick to the club. Try it.

[RFKFREAK]

No just regular one sided tape sticky side down on the mat. It doesn't stick well to mats hit behind it just a little and it will peel and stick to the club. Easy to remove but a good enough reason to not hit it for me. I've used talc lines too but it flies everywhere. Not good in the basement.

Not dbl sided, it'll just scrap off and stick to the club. Try it.

Thanks, guys, I'll def try it (unfortunately not today since it's raining).

[tomvk77]

Interesting.  My troubles are almost all left/right accuracy.  Sure the driver and 3w are more variable in distance, but for me, anything I hit relatively near my target left/right is at least going to go a distance still on the green, and usually no more than half a club longer or shorter than I expect (ignoring the pretty rare fliers and absolutely perfectly hit shots that bomb).  I have a buddy with less consistent distances who for a while had as his mantra the classic advice that if there's any doubt or a really short pin amateurs should always take an extra club.  I tried it for a while and just ended up bombing greens or putting it all the way at the back with a front pin.

I generally don't agree with the second sentence.  Obviously there's a cost/benefit analysis.  If you're really bad with the longer clubs and trying to hit a 4i up to pitch and putt distance is very likely to instead end up in jail or OB or whatever, then sure, hitting 9i and a full wedge might be the right play.  But your expected score from 30-40 yards is much lower than from 100-110, so if you can get to 30-40 yards with reasonable risk, I think you should do it.  And if your 4i is that much worse than your 9i and you expect a blow up hole when you have to hit it, you're probably not sniffing at low 80s anyway.

I think this might be advice only for really short hitters or high 90s to 100s players trying to get down to the low 90s.  Seems to me that you're not going to become a consistent low 80s player if you play a couple holes going for bogey from the start.  Again, there's some wiggle room there.  If you play an incredibly hard course where the 1 handicap hole is a 440 yard par 4 with a 15 yard wide fairway, water on one side and jail on the other, a brutal green layout, and you have to hit driver-3w just to have a chance of getting to the green, then sure, maybe hitting 3 irons in is the right play.  On most courses I don't think this is smart course management for a player trying to shoot 80-82.

So you are a PRO?? you hit all the greens? good for you!

What i'm trying to say is by just taking a little less risk, you stay out off trouble. and you will make bogey at most.

If you score high 80's most likely you score that way because off missing accuracy or you not as far of the tee.

What you are saying is just very short sighted.

If i look at the scores at the SI1 at my home course in a stroke play event. More than 30% of single hdc score double bogey or worse.

[mdl]

So you are a PRO?? you hit all the greens? good for you!

What i'm trying to say is by just taking a little less risk, you stay out off trouble. and you will make bogey at most.

If you score high 80's most likely you score that way because off missing accuracy or you not as far of the tee.

What you are saying is just very short sighted.

If i look at the scores at the SI1 at my home course in a stroke play event. More than 30% of single hdc score double bogey or worse.

Not trying to start a fight.  Just saying that I disagree with your assessment of the risks and rewards in a couple of the scenarios you offered.  In the par 5 case, I'm pretty certain I'm right about the risks for an 80s player on holes where it's not obviously good game management not to hit it close to the hole (so the fairway doesn't suddenly thin with tough rough or there isn't water starting 80 yards from the hole, whatever).  Say you're 240 yards out on a par 5 after your tee shot and your 3h goes ~200 yards.  My view is that the penalty in expected score from an increased risk of a big mishit with the 3h compared to an 8i is offset by the much lower expected score from 40 yards out compared to 100 yards out.  The GIR% from 40 yards is way higher than from 100 yards, and you're much more likely to have an easier first putt when you do hit the green (so more birdies and fewer 3-putt bogeys) from 40 yards.

On the playing the 1 handicap hole as a bogey hole from the tee, it's more dependent on the hole itself.  My opinion is still that on most courses your average score will be higher planning to reach the green with 5i-5i-SW than with D-3i.  Sure the mishits are bigger with the driver and 3i, but it's not like the percentages with a 5i are SO much better, and the GIR percentage for an 80s player with the SW isn't anywhere close to 100%.  My point is, if you play it as a three shot hole, a mishit on any one of those three shots and you're looking at double or worse.  I'd bet that if you asked all the single digits in your club to play the 1 handicap hole as a 3 shot hole, the percentage with double bogey or worse would be even higher.

[Lihu]

So you are a PRO?? you hit all the greens? good for you!

What i'm trying to say is by just taking a little less risk, you stay out off trouble. and you will make bogey at most.

If you score high 80's most likely you score that way because off missing accuracy or you not as far of the tee.

What you are saying is just very short sighted.

If i look at the scores at the SI1 at my home course in a stroke play event. More than 30% of single hdc score double bogey or worse.

I can pretty much vouch for @mdl . His ball striking is really good for a 9 handicap. I was standing next to him on the driving range at our last outing, and he hit some pretty nice balls.

[rehmwa]

I know what you are advocating.  But the communication lines are twisted.  I'll try below:  But note that this is thread that says - get from high 80's to low 80's, so I'd be advocating the 'lay up' for someone at this level - or equivalent at targetting and ball striking.  I like that 7's and 8's and 9's are arguing about best strategy for essentially an 18 hcp

• mid 90's+ scoring type - Beginner - Go ahead and go for it in 2.  I'll miss the third shot just as bad but be left with a similar shot - so why not be scrambling from a similar miss but with one less stroke.....sometimes I get lucky  (typically - 2nd long shot ends up in the bushes to the right.  HOWEVER, if I happen to lay up well, my third iron approach ends up in those bushes anyway.  Plus, I might shank the layup attempt in the first place)
• shooting in the mid 80's - Intermediate - Lay up for an easier 3rd approach shot - I'm a LOT better with a couple short irons/wedges in my hand than I am with that fairway wood - it's worth the extra shot for the benefit.  wuss
• low 80's and better - Decent player - I have no issue to go for the green in 2, but if there are a lot of hazards around the green, laying up is a great option to think about
• really good player - How do I feel today?  am I lasering that long shot?  (Or, I NAILED that drive, now I have an iron or better, even on two)

and then there's always the one consideration - I Have to lay up so I can take a full swing on my 3rd shot to get enough spin.  If I hit my 3w on, or if I'm stuck with a half swing on approach, then I'm screwed and will not hold the green.

I play in the high 70's to mid 80's, and I remember the risk reward tradeoff you are discussing.  Plus I was eagle hunting and prone to more risks.  If I connected on my fairway woods but missed, I could still make par.  If I lay up, I would likely chunk my 3rd shot.  Going for it was the better choice, and a lot less stressful.  But I also played on pretty wide open courses.

lately? - if it's open, I go for it now.  But if the range is just outside of a good club or the fairway is too tight, or there's trouble too close to the green?  I try to lay up to 100/110.  Both options have been working pretty nicely.