Define "Release"......

[Pave]

I've been reading this forum and I'm curious as to what you think the term "release" actually means.

[saevel25]

Nothing important. Its a term developed by instructors to try to define a feel that varies from player to player. Meaning, it isn't worth your time worrying about unless it comes up on video as something. Yet since most players end up flipping at the ball anyways, why would they ever way to think about releasing the club.

[jamo]

Power accumulator ... I want to say number 3?

[Pave]

  jamo said:

Power accumulator ... I want to say number 3?

lol, I did consider making it multiple choice, but alas the answer would have been too obvious once it's there in black and white.

[iacas]

  Pave said:

I've been reading this forum and I'm curious as to what you think the term "release" actually means.

Depends on who you ask.

There's no one definition. Some people, like me, hate the phrase because it's got no definition and is often a word said by a golf instructor as a CYA type of word. It means whatever they want it to mean in that moment.

Some instructors define a "release" for their swing pattern, and that's fine, but at the end of the day those are often instructors with "one swing pattern," and I tend to avoid that as well.

  saevel25 said:

Nothing important. Its a term developed by instructors to try to define a feel that varies from player to player. Meaning, it isn't worth your time worrying about unless it comes up on video as something. Yet since most players end up flipping at the ball anyways, why would they ever way to think about releasing the club.

I've said here "lag happens" and so the sister phrase to that is "release happens."

  jamo said:

Power accumulator ... I want to say number 3?

It's probably all of them, truly, if you want to go down the TGM route.

  Pave said:

lol, I did consider making it multiple choice, but alas the answer would have been too obvious once it's there in black and white.

I would disagree that there's any "one answer."

[Pave]

I can see why you hate the term Erik and it's why I asked the question, because the term is not understood and has been contorted over time. The fact that you disagree that there is only one answer is proof that the term has been contorted over time, even by instructors. Is the term wrong or are people interpreting the term to suit their own ends?

Release means to "let go" or "let it go". It's that simple. Your "lag happens, release happens" is correct.

I believe the confusion began when people/instructors began trying to define the release or analyse the release with pictures. Problem is that the release is a feeling and you can't take a picture of a feeling.

Think about what the first guy who used the term was trying to describe- it would have been a feeling (of letting it go). Also think about where the term "held off" comes from, he "held off" the release, he didn't let it go.

Here's a little experiment a few of you might want to try that will give you a feeling of release:

Grab a wedge and a big cardboard box, place the box 10-20yds away from you, line up with your wedge like your going to hit a ball straight over the box. From your golf stance THROW YOUR CLUB AT THE BOX HARD with your golf swing.

Obviously you must "release" the club to throw it at the box, what many of you will find is that you "hang onto it" (the club) too long and end up throwing it backwards or way left, because you don't "release" or "let the club go" down the target line.

[iacas]

  Pave said:

I can see why you hate the term Erik and it's why I asked the question, because the term is not understood and has been contorted over time. The fact that you disagree that there is only one answer is proof that the term has been contorted over time, even by instructors. Is the term wrong or are people interpreting the term to suit there own ends?

I don't think you can really argue that point. You can only really tell us what you think the term means, but heck, I'd be more inclined (if I had to pick a term) to pick the TGM definition, because at least it's written in a book that's 60 years old or so, and set a sort of precedent.

  Pave said:

I believe the confusion began when people/instructors began trying to define the release or analyse the release with pictures. Problem is that the release is a feeling and you can't take a picture of a feeling.

I think that anything that tries to define a "feeling" is destined to fail. Feels aren't real. Hogan may or may not have felt the same "release" as anyone else, and heck, he may not have felt a "release" at all - he famously said he wishes he had three right hands so he could hit the ball even harder. I'm not sure he felt he "let go" of anything.

  Pave said:

Think about what the first guy who used the term was trying to describe- it would have been a feeling (of letting it go). Also think about where the term "held off" comes from, he "held off" the release, he didn't let it go.

We don't know that.

This is all part of the reason why I don't particularly care for the term. I never use it. Virtually every player I teach who wants to draw the ball does. Various students here can attest to the fact that they "release" the club properly without feeling like they're throwing their club at a cardboard box.

Peter Kostis uses "release" a few times in this video (apparently not "releasing" is how you fade the ball?)

How much does Rory "release" this one? This ball drew, btw.

So again, your "throw your club at the box" drill is how you teach and feel "release." That's fine. I haven't seen you teach, and so I can't really comment on it.

But I don't mess with it. I have and use lots of feels with golfers (that's almost all instruction is after you've identified the mechanics you need to improve), but can't recall ever asking someone to "release" the club like this. IMO, it happens automatically if the things before and after are being done properly.

[Pave]

Look man, that's the point of my post. The original and correct meaning of the word/term has been contorted by people trying to describe a feeling. I have no idea how The Golf Machine describes "release", but is it that hard to accept the the meaning of the term comes from the dictionary?

RE: the videos. Of course you can hit a fade with a release, the fact that you've put them there suggests you're thinking a release is something that it's not, a release is not the squaring up of the club through impact. Rory's is a late release with a manipulated body action to delay the release.

I find it difficult to discuss points of view with you Erik, how would you feel if if I told you "feels aren't real" but "I use lots of feels with golfers"?

[AmazingWhacker]

I always thought "release" just meant getting to that fully extended position in A8/A9.   Or I guess "release" is what you do/feel to cause you to get to that position instead of chicken-winging it.

[iacas]

  Pave said:

Look man, that's the point of my post. The original and correct meaning of the word/term has been contorted by people trying to describe a feeling.

I disagree that there's an "original and correct meaning of the word" (as some golf instructors attempt to use it for the golf swing). And I'm not just saying that to be difficult, or anything of the sort. I simply don't think the word has a true and/or universally (or even close) accepted original definition as it applies to the golf swing.

But… Let's imagine for a second that "originally" some time a long long time ago it meant exactly what you said. If it's become so contorted, then it's time to give up on the word, if it's going to confuse people. The point of communication is to be understood, and if using a word is going to cause confusion because it means ten different things to ten different people, abandon it or find a different word.

In other words, the word "release" is meaningless because it has so many different meanings to so many different people.

  Pave said:

RE: the videos. Of course you can hit a fade with a release, the fact that you've put them there suggests you're thinking a release is something that it's not, a release is not the squaring up of the club through impact. Rory's is a late release with a manipulated body action to delay the release.

That's your definition of the word.

You realize you're trying to tell me that "I'm thinking a release is something that it's not" when I've been what I feel is pretty clear that I don't teach or even consider "the release" to be "a thing" in the golf swing. Not once, IIRC, have I ever talked with my golfers about "releasing" the club.

  Pave said:

I find it difficult to discuss points of view with you Erik, how would you feel if if I told you "feels aren't real" but "I use lots of feels with golfers"?

I'd either ask what you mean specifically, or take the time to learn what you mean.

I'll start with "feel ain't real." Case in point: a student who takes his putter outside the target line on the backswing might need to feel like he wraps his putter around his right ankle on his backswing (i.e. super arc). Feel: wrap the putter around his right ankle. Real? Nothing of the sort - just a putter gently arcing inward instead of going back outside the target line.

As for "I use lots of feels with golfers" that's because . Feels produce mechanics. So of course I use feels. With the player above, the feel might be "wrap the putter around your right ankle on the backswing." It produces the improved mechanics.

Those statements aren't contradictory. If I'm reading what you wrote correctly, you seem to believe they are.

[vangator]

I absolutely believe there is a definition of release. When you downswing, to get the clubhead to the ball from your lag, you have to release your cocked wrists. The first guy does a full release and follow thru to hit a draw. Wrists roll over. That's what I do. Rory also releases his wrists but "holds on" to the club to prevent it turning over to cause his fade. That's how I fade the ball.

[Pave]

Quote:

I disagree that there's an "original and correct meaning of the word" (as some golf instructors attempt to use it for the golf swing). And I'm not just saying that to be difficult, or anything of the sort. I simply don't think the word has a true and/or universally (or even close) accepted original definition as it applies to the golf swing.

I can appreciate how you got to the point of forming this opinion. I don't necessarily agree with your opinion, but I understand it now. Thankyou.

Quote:

I'll start with "feel ain't real." Case in point: a student who takes his putter outside the target line on the backswing might need to feel like he wraps his putter around his right ankle on his backswing (i.e. super arc). Feel: wrap the putter around his right ankle. Real? Nothing of the sort - just a putter gently arcing inward instead of going back outside the target line.

As for "I use lots of feels with golfers" that's because Everyone is a Feel Player . Feels produce mechanics. So of course I use feels. With the player above, the feel might be "wrap the putter around your right ankle on the backswing." It produces the improved mechanics.

Those statements aren't contradictory. If I'm reading what you wrote correctly, you seem to believe they are.

I see where you're coming from, but feels are very real. It's more the students perception that's screwed up. "feel ain't real" is confusing.

There is a place for "release" in teaching, I've seen several swings on here that may benefit.

[Pave]

  vangator said:

I absolutely believe there is a definition of release. When you downswing, to get the clubhead to the ball from your lag, you have to release your cocked wrists. The first guy does a full release and follow thru to hit a draw. Wrists roll over. That's what I do. Rory also releases his wrists but "holds on" to the club to prevent it turning over to cause his fade. That's how I fade the ball.

Yeah, that's as good a definition as any, you're not hanging onto the cocked wrists, you "let it go", mechanics do the rest.

The videos are are little tricky, apparently the first guy hit a fade, clubface would have been open. The second one Rory hit a draw, clubface would have been closed with an in to out path, what makes the second one tricky is the body manipulation. He was try to hit it low. Hard shot and difficult to analyse.

[mchepp]

I too hate the phrase release, but if forced I would describe it as a sequence of power accumulators such as 4,1,2,5,3, not a single accumulator.

[Hardballs]

I've been working on impact, speed on impact, rhythm and grip strength recently, (basically my swing) I never got the release bit, I d read about rolling the wrists/hands over, and when you try to purposely do it, bad things happen, I also never understood feel, it's confusing to read and understand about feel? there is too much BS written about golf in general, however it's starting to come together now for me, ( I've felt this way before, but this time it's real! Honest!) for me "release" means the point where my through swing begins, where I loosen or "release" my grip to be as loose as possible allowing the momentum of the club head to power through, my description would be when ya pick ya kids by the hands and twirl them round, your gripping just tight enough to not let go, because you don't wanna crush their hand bones and it gives a better flight, your bodyweight is your anchor, like a kids push swing it swings better tied to the top bar with rope than it would attached with pieces of wood, it like... Oh forget it! I give up, but I know what I mean!

[Hardballs]

It's like when you swing ya kids round you grip them tight at first, but once the flight/centrifugal force, or swing is in motion you "release" your grip and the swing takes over ...or takes place! So for me "release" means the point of releasing your grip, or letting go, as pave suggests! There, I've said it as best I can!

[vangator]

You release whn you swing your kids around? Wouldn't they hit the wall? :) I used to be a baseball player. If I wanted to rip a ball down the 3rd baseline, I'd release my wrists and turn the bat over. Normally, I would not release my wrists and slap balls to right field. Kind of like a fade in golf. I hit for average that way. BTW, I know a guy who rolls his wrists consciously. He's very good golfer. I never roll my wrists cosciously. I unhinge my wrists at the ball and follow thru down the line. I drive ther ball pretty well.

[mvmac]

  vangator said:

I absolutely believe there is a definition of release. When you downswing, to get the clubhead to the ball from your lag, you have to release your cocked wrists. The first guy does a full release and follow thru to hit a draw. Wrists roll over. That's what I do. Rory also releases his wrists but "holds on" to the club to prevent it turning over to cause his fade. That's how I fade the ball.

Rolling the wrists have nothing to do with drawing the ball. Check out Myth #7 [CONTENTEMBED=/t/73354/common-golf-myths-that-may-be-hurting-your-game layout=inline]​[/CONTENTEMBED] [quote name="Pave" url="/t/73693/define-release#post_972146"]Yeah, that's as good a definition as any, you're not hanging onto the cocked wrists, you "let it go", mechanics do the rest. The videos are are little tricky, apparently the first guy hit a fade, clubface would have been open. The second one Rory hit a draw, clubface would have been closed with an in to out path, what makes the second one tricky is the body manipulation. He was try to hit it low. Hard shot and difficult to analyse. [/quote] Rory hits draws with the face aimed right of the target at impact, like most players that draw the ball.