I am nothing like a Pro Golfer!!!!!

[Lihu]

Hey spaz how about you take a ****ing chill pill.  You're so balls deep in these guy's crotch you don't know which way is up.  The few people I've talked to who follow these tournaments closer than I all say the TV stations cut away from bad shots and try to portray the field in the best possible light.  Do I have a problem with it?  Not really, no, because I generally don't watch them.  When stupid saps like you buy into it 200% and then rage out on the interwebs like a goddamn child it can be annoying though.  Anyway, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to notice the field for these things are what, 30-50 guys deep?  And who do they show.  Oh yeah, the top 5 or 10 guys.  Why is that?  Because everyone else is sucking hind tit?  Imagine that.

Like I said, I know these guys are good at what they do but give a rest Uncle Rico.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strandly

Not once but twice I've said I know these guys are good and you still post things like this.  If you aren't going to read the previous posts then just don't even bother commenting.

I just couldn't get past the first two sentences in your last response to @Shorty .

[Strandly]

I just couldn't get past the first two sentences in your last response to @Shorty.

I thought it was pretty funny to be honest.

[Shorty]

I thought it was pretty funny to be honest.

No wonder. You use terms  like "spaz"  and "effing chill pill" and "balls deep" and then you think that all but the top dozen players are no good. Macho stuff.

I wouldn't walk across the road to see 80 percent of these guys play because they are boring personalities and right wing pricks with a sense of entitlement, but you don't really understand TV do you? Why wouldn't they show the better players? I don't want to see Robert Allenby shooting 75 and I don't want to see Jim Furyk crapping his pants over a two foot putt, but it doesn't mean that they're crap.

You say you don't watch and it's clearly true because you and your mates makes stuff up and you don't know what you're talking about.

Go and look at the replay of whover it was just off the green and hitting it six inches twice. They showed it over and over. And they live showing balls in the water. Quite deep at times too.

[late347]

I usually throw my two cents in on these threads.  Its way more than that.  The average athlete has no idea how good a pro athlete is.  They are insane.

I briefly entertained going pro in tennis at end of high school and first year or so of college.  I was a very good tennis player.  I was the best player at my club at 14-15, the best player in my state my last two years of high school, and went to college for tennis at a program that routinely competes at the highest level (playing #2 or #3 singles my freshman year).

I attended Bolletieri academy, and while I was there, I played a guy who had lost to Roddick in the junior Australian open that year.  He beat me 8-0.  I won two points.  He hit all my serves back for winners, and I couldn't touch his.  It was humbling.

That guy didn't make it as a pro.  He didn't even come close.  I've hit around with a couple pros while at Bolletieri (Tommy Haas a bunch) and it was like they were playing a different sport.

Picture the best player at your club, hell, the best player you've ever played with and they couldn't touch a pro.  They are worlds ahead in mentality and skill.  I can't imagine golf is much different from tennis in this regard.  Its one thing to shoot 70 one weekend with your buddies.  Its quite another to shoot 70 when you absolutely need a 70 to get or keep your card or whatever.  I could hit around with the pros, practice with the pros and play some mini-sets in tennis and not look out of place, but if you put me in the first round of the US Open, even though I was good, I would've looked like a child.  They have another gear when the bright lights come on.

If I'm off on this and golf is different correct me, but there is no comparison usually between a pro and an even a very, very good amateur.

being a "pro player" has nothing to do with it...

NOT even tennis...

The "pro-ness" quality of a player that is. His occupational status isn't the deciding factor so to speak.

You get better at tennis by playing against people better than you, and against people worse than you. The more matches you play the better, certainly...

If you have an highly skilled, athletic amateur who trained and played as many games as the "pros" then obviously he would have good chances of winning.

The thing is though, the world's best tennis players Nadal, Djokovic etc... they started playing tennis at a very young age, with good coaching...

These world's best in tennis, they make career decision to go pro in tennis, when they are 12 years old... They start playing tennis at 7-8 years old... They train all those years with coaching and academies... They compete (or try to!) at national level in their early teens...

[Shorty]

These world's best in tennis, they make career decision to go pro in tennis, when they are 12 years old... They start playing tennis at 7-8 years old... They train all those years with coaching and academies... They compete (or try to!) at national level in their early teens...

As do the 20,000 others their age who you've never heard of whose parents spent tens of thousands and think that that's all they had to do

The coaching academies are full of players who have made the decision to go pro (or their parents have) and they haven't got a chance.

You write as if success is a natural consequence of starting early and being ambitious.

Look at the tounaments where someone you've never heard of shoots 83 and then look up their name.It's always interesting. You'll usually find an article about how rising star x qualified for such and sucha  PGATour event. They're invariably some small town star who everyone thinks is going to be a world beater. They probably do play off plus 3, but again, it's the BS DIY handicapping system where people mark their own cards and decide which scores to post so the +3 is actually a 5. Just as likely is that they are a genuine +3 who isn't nearly good enough.

[late347]

As do the 20,000 others their age who you've never heard of whose parents spent tens of thousands and think that that's all they had to do

The coaching academies are full of players who have made the decision to go pro (or their parents have) and they haven't got a chance.

You write as if success is a natural consequence of starting early and being ambitious.

Look at the tounaments where someone you've never heard of shoots 83 and then look up their name.It's always interesting. You'll usually find an article about how rising star x qualified for such and sucha  PGATour event. They're invariably some small town star who everyone thinks is going to be a world beater. They probably do play off plus 3, but again, it's the BS DIY handicapping system where people mark their own cards and decide which scores to post so the +3 is actually a 5. Just as likely is that they are a genuine +3 who isn't nearly good enough.

Well, I'm not writing it off, John Clayton is on the other hand writing it off...

He's saying to the effect of...

I can't win a point vs somebody in tennis, therefore an amateur player is incapable of winning a tennis match vs a pro tennis player.

Which simply isn't true.

Has Roger Federer lost tennis points, games and matches? Yes he has.

Has Djokovic lost tennis points, games and matches? Yes he has.

I'd say the truth is somewhere out in the middle. I'm not going to say that a skilled amateur has absolutely no chances of winning, but maybe a pro player would have slight advantage.

PS: IF you can't even win 1 point vs a pro player, you gotta train more on your first serve in tennis, just saying...

[Break80]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Break80

OK, let me start off by saying I was never 100% serious when I would claim the following (but somewhere deep in my mind I thought it might have an ounce of truth to it):

The only reason I am a 12 handicapper and not a professional golfer is because the courses I play on are crap compared to the PGA courses, and they have a gallery and caddie to find every ball, help read, every putt, etc...

Well, this past Monday I was fortunate enough to play Congressional Country Club as part of the Media Day for Tiger Woods' Quicken Loans National coming up next month. The course was perfect, they supplied me with a forecaddie, and I was ready to make a run at the course record. And then reality set it!!!!!

Despite playing the white tees, which were about 6,200 yards (you know, almost 1,600 yards shorter than the Championship tees), it was obvious on my first hole (No. 11) that I was out of my league. My drive was hit decently, about 225 down the left side and disappeared in the rough. My next shot was gauged out about 80 yards (and I swung HARD) into the right rough, my third was decent, but shot across the green as though it landed on concrete. My fourth was a putt from the back fringe, and I was so scared to knock it off the front of the green, I left it about 20 feet short. My next was of course struck very solidly, and rolled about 8 feet past, then I was no where near the hole with my triple-bogey attempt (though I blamed the caddie on that one).

And the pattern continued, balls that hit the rough just stopped and sunk, balls that weren't struck perfectly with an approach almost always ran through, and chips from the rough were a guessing game for me. My normal 7 iron goes 155ish from the fairway, but maybe got me 100 closer if I swung hard from the rough there.

Yet the pros are knocking 7 irons close to 190 from the rough with ease. They are spinning and checking shots with their eyes closed. They are averaging 27-28 putts on these linolium-style greens. Oh yeah, and their approaches are coming in from about 50-60 yards further away from mine, even with their rear tees.

Just a different game, that's for sure!

But, I can't wait to try it again if given the chance!

So, what did you shoot?   Did you Break80?

Shot a solid 105, and I wasn't too disappointed with it either. No lost balls/penalties, plenty of 3-putts, and one hell of a good time!!

[Lihu]

Well, I'm not writing it off, John Clayton is on the other hand writing it off... He's saying to the effect of... I can't win a point vs somebody in tennis, therefore an amateur player is incapable of winning a tennis match vs a pro tennis player. Which simply isn't true. Has Roger Federer lost tennis points, games and matches? Yes he has. Has Djokovic lost tennis points, games and matches? Yes he has. I'd say the truth is somewhere out in the middle. I'm not going to say that a skilled amateur has absolutely no chances of winning, but maybe a pro player would have slight advantage. PS: IF you can't even win 1 point vs a pro player, you gotta train more on your first serve in tennis, just saying... :dance:

I doubt you could even win one hole in match play against a pro golfer. Even if you train like in the Dan Plan. The pro is what's left of a field of 10s of thousands of wannabe kids who are near scratch or low single digit players. We're working with my son to get him to a 6-7 handicap this summer just so he can make it on the high school team. He's turning 15, 5'6"105 pounds and drives slightly farther than your stated distances, and just does this for the varsity letter and a potential picture on a school Banner for league championships. The other 5 kids on his team drive further and are all in the low single digits with one scratch player, and this is one of the thousands of high schools in the country. That's like 70,000 kids playing in the single digits? Now, imagine that only 7,000 of the best get to play in college, then 700 of these best play D1? and 70 of these best of these get to "pro" status of some kind? Possibly only 7 might be able to make the big name pros? In any case, the ones that play in "pro" status are really good, as they are filtered from the best. [quote name="Break80" url="/t/74749/i-am-nothing-like-a-pro-golfer/18#post_994013"]Shot a solid 105, and I wasn't too disappointed with it either. No lost balls/penalties, plenty of 3-putts, and one hell of a good time!! [/quote] Nice job! Glad it was fun.

[johnclayton1982]

I can't win a point vs somebody in tennis, therefore an amateur player is incapable of winning a tennis match vs a pro tennis player.

Which simply isn't true.

Has Roger Federer lost tennis points, games and matches? Yes he has.

Has Djokovic lost tennis points, games and matches? Yes he has.

I'd say the truth is somewhere out in the middle. I'm not going to say that a skilled amateur has absolutely no chances of winning, but maybe a pro player would have slight advantage.

PS: IF you can't even win 1 point vs a pro player, you gotta train more on your first serve in tennis, just saying...

That's the point.  Its a silly argument for me to say "they're awesome", you say "c'mon", i say "no really", you say "c'mon".

I was good.  I played #2 at a D1 school for three years. I won the state title twice.  I went to Bolletieri.  I gave it a legitimate shot.  I didn't come close.  And the guy who beat me without breaking  sweat didn't come close either.  For me, that shows they are pretty good.  I choose to take from that that the pros are on another planet, not that I stunk.  Obviously its tough to convince someone of this.

Obviously Federer loses points and matches, but not to people like the OP (great post, btw).

Now, you can call it "worship" or make fun of me for it or whatever, but I tried very very hard and spent alot of my family's money trying to do it and I didn't even come close.  Therefore, I have a tremendous amount of respect for those who have accomplished that goal.  I didn't go empty handed, I got a degree from an SEC school and that really helped me, but yes, I have a huge "mythical" respect for them because what they have accomplished is incredibly difficult and deserves admiration not minimization IMO.

[David in FL]

You sound like one of these guys that elevates sports figures to some kind of ridiculously unwarranted mythic status.  I know these people are good at what they do but at the end of the day they are human just like everyone else.  In fact, I was just commenting to a friend along these lines last week...  while watching some footage of the recent Player's tournament and I thought it was absolutely hilarious how the TV station quickly cut away from anyone who sank a shot in the water or muffed a ball.  It's like they don't want you to see these guys make stupid shots like the rest of humanity but instead make 230 yard eagles all day, every day.  It's laughable imo.

Sorry, but a statement like this only serves to demonstrate your lack of understanding of the exponential difference in skill level between players of varying abilities....and just how stupid good even the absolute worst guy on tour really is at this silly game. That's not meant to be mean-spirited in any way. As an inexperienced, relatively unskilled golfer yourself, you just don't have the personal perspective to know better at this point. [quote name="johnclayton1982" url="/t/74749/i-am-nothing-like-a-pro-golfer/18#post_994077"] That's the point.  Its a silly argument for me to say "they're awesome", you say "c'mon", i say "no really", you say "c'mon". I was good.  I played #2 at a D1 school for three years. I won the state title twice.  I went to Bolletieri.  I gave it a legitimate shot.  I didn't come close.  And the guy who beat me without breaking  sweat didn't come close either.  For me, that shows they are pretty good.  I choose to take from that that the pros are on another planet, not that I stunk.   [/quote] ^^^^^ This is what I mean by perspective . ^^^^^

[InTheRough]

I have to side with johnclayton1982 on this one.  I think that most people understand that pro athletes are very good at what they do but few people truly understand just how good they are.  A lot of people have the idea that if they had the time and money to practice and play as much as the pros then they would be able to compete with them which unfortunately just isn't true.  Sure it would make you very good at the game and you would probably be better than anyone else you know but a pro that you watch on tv will be able to crush you on any given day.  To give you an idea of how good they are just consider the fact that only 10% of minor league baseball players will ever play even one game in the major leagues and even fewer will become a regular in the majors.  These are guys who have been the best players at every level they have played and play baseball all day, every day, all year round, and yet the vast majority of them aren't anywhere close to being able to compete with the best.

[isukgolf]

Do the math ... There are how many "good golfers" in the world ... There are how many that can compete at a Pro level ... I think that equals a large gap ... It's more than hitting a club x yards to a target ... It's having multi shots that vary in height, flight path, carry, etc from varied lies and conditions, with that same club ... Simply amazing

[late347]

I def agree that pros all of them have much superior shotmaking skills ballshaping etc... I just had difficulty relating to the tennis example losing one match without even making a single point vs him. That's really rough going I have to admit. Not even winning one point... I have to admit playing against one junior champion dude in his early teens I was about 17-18 at the time. This kid had some tennis game he went to a coaching program and was honing his skills vs older kids and tougher players. He did beat me but I won some games and sets... still... At that time though i was functioning without eyeglasses with poor vision LOL it took the drivers exam to bring this issue to my light. Also, i was actually overweight and unhealthy at that point in my life not exactly match condition cardio. Ive played vs some regional champ players and even though I lost many matches I was still able to win games and points. Even with aces but they are points still are they not?

[Strandly]

Sorry, but a statement like this only serves to demonstrate your lack of understanding of the exponential difference in skill level between players of varying abilities....and just how stupid good even the absolute worst guy on tour really is at this silly game.

That's not meant to be mean-spirited in any way. As an inexperienced, relatively unskilled golfer yourself, you just don't have the personal perspective to know better at this point.

And the world is full of thousands of people who are obsessed with and worship sports figures like gods as they attempt to live vicariously through their exploits.  This is not meant to be mean spirited in any way, mental illness strikes at random and without prejudice.

[Lihu]

And the world is full of thousands of people who are obsessed with and worship sports figures like gods as they attempt to live vicariously through their exploits.  This is not meant to be mean spirited in any way, mental illness strikes at random and without prejudice.

Somehow, I'm not sure this applies at all. You are correct in that many people worship athletes in an irrational way, but it seems like the deeper you learn about golf the more of an appreciation you have for the professionals and the better than scratch players (some of whom contribute to this site). This is in part because you start to appreciate the amount of control they have over the ball as you get better.

[Shorty]

And the world is full of thousands of people who are obsessed with and worship sports figures like gods as they attempt to live vicariously through their exploits.  This is not meant to be mean spirited in any way, mental illness strikes at random and without prejudice.

Pretty much right, but I don't really see this at all in golf, though. Yes we have sports heros and some fans go over the top, but when it comes to golf, people just like seeing the best of the best playing. I don't really think that that many people do that in individual sports.

Team sport, yes, for sure, and that can be a bit sick - and even leads to things like domestic violence in European football.

The U.S. college football obsession seems bizarre to many, but I think it's good if people with not much going on in their lives have something to feel part of.

I think that one of the things that a lot of star athletes have in common is that they are incredibly boring and narrow minded people. Any interview will show that.

But there is nothing to match a soccer goal from 30 yards out or a Greg Norman drive in his heyday or a Phil recovery shot or Tiger at his peak for excitement, for a lot of people.

I know where you're coming from but it's a bit like when someone poses a problem about a golf shaft or a leaking tap and someone screams "God! There are people starving in Africa! Who cares about that?" People talk abiout these things in a given context. Golf fans think about golf, not golfers, in my experience.

Except the ones who think that Bubba is "cool" when he posts a video or that Jiminez is cool because he smokes a cigar. Or that DJ's ridiculous swagger looks cool.

But I'd prefer any of those three to a Zac Johnson or a Jim Furyk or, heaven forbid, the most boring man in golf, David Duval, who people here feel sorry for, FFS.

[Abu3baid]

Somehow, I'm not sure this applies at all. You are correct in that many people worship athletes in an irrational way, but it seems like the deeper you learn about golf the more of an appreciation you have for the professionals and the better than scratch players (some of whom contribute to this site). This is in part because you start to appreciate the amount of control they have over the ball as you get better.

People's appreciation is usually what leads them to the hero worship.. Soccer, football, baseball and basically all the other sports... Usually there is some sort of understanding regarding how hard the sport is before there is an appreciation and then worship. Are pro golfers good? Yes.. Could a single digit golfer beat Rory? Not usually, but he would if Rory played the same way he did that day he walked off the course.. Heck, I bet that if I played a pro I would be able to win one hole by luck.. He hits it in the water on a par 3 and I hit it on the green. Low percentage yes, impossible? No..

[Lihu]

People's appreciation is usually what leads them to the hero worship.. Soccer, football, baseball and basically all the other sports... Usually there is some sort of understanding regarding how hard the sport is before there is an appreciation and then worship. Are pro golfers good? Yes.. Could a single digit golfer beat Rory? Not usually, but he would if Rory played the same way he did that day he walked off the course.. Heck, I bet that if I played a pro I would be able to win one hole by luck.. He hits it in the water on a par 3 and I hit it on the green. Low percentage yes, impossible? No..

When you (or any bogey golfer) are in a match with a pro, you are the one more likely to be in the water. I might be generous enough to give it 1:1,000,000 that you could win a hole randomly like that. Golf at that level has a different level of luck involved. The pros are not separated by that many strokes, and any single stroke could take you out of play. So, they can't make the same type of fundamental mistakes we make.