Summer gets a Polar Vortex

[iacas]

The fact that man can effect the planet in this way in such a short time is ridiculous.

No, it isn't. Not when we're putting THAT MUCH crap into the atmosphere.

Carl Sagan warned about global warming a fairly long time ago. But hey, far be it from me to point out for the umpteenth time the hard science behind all of this.

[Grndslmhttr3]

The fact that man can effect the planet in this way in such a short time is ridiculous.

I bet you don't think that humans are responsible for the hole in the Ozone layer, either.

There are ways to gauge how much CO2 was in the atmosphere before we started measuring it, such as measuring air bubbles trapped in ice cores. Sure, climates change over time naturally, but it's called anthropogenic warming for a reason - it's progressing at an unnatural rate thanks to humans. It's no coincidence that there was an enormous spike in CO2 concentrations starting around the same time as the Industrial Revolution.

http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/ccgg/trends/history.html

[Wally Fairway]

take that political crap to another board.......

guess what

next week gonna look like this

[billchao]

take that political crap to another board.......

It's the Grill Room. If people want to talk about this stuff, they can. Feel free to ignore it, if you'd like.

[Grndslmhttr3]

I'd classify it as scientific ignorance more than anything else

[saevel25]

It still doesn't help that the "Little Ice Age" was ending at the same time.

To what degree humans are responsible is still not known, but to some degree and it is not negligible as to the amount, humans have effected the climate. My best friend is a meteorology major from The Ohio State University, and worked under a Jason Box who has been to Greenland and done research on ice cores specifically on this point.

[MS256]

I know that except for the ridiculous last winter and the equally ridiculous winter of 79 it's warmer now than it was when I was a kid and ice skated fairly regularly around here.

If kids now were into ice skating like we used to be they would be pretty much out of luck around here most years.

Whether any "Global warming" is man made or not I don't have a clue. Most scientists think so but some don't, and scientists can jump on a bandwagon just like anybody else.

Stifling our emissions while China and others gladly take up the slack doesn't solve the problem if there is one.

[Jeremie Boop]

It doesn't take a genius to understand there are more living things *humans and animals* producing carbon dioxide and methane alone without adding in the industrial gases being produced. That in combination with the deforestation of a lot of the forests has caused a climate shift for sure. Even if we were living as clean as possible we'd be impacting the environment with the shear number of us there are.

[CarlSpackler]

It doesn't take a genius to understand there are more living things *humans and animals* producing carbon dioxide and methane alone without adding in the industrial gases being produced. That in combination with the deforestation of a lot of the forests has caused a climate shift for sure. Even if we were living as clean as possible we'd be impacting the environment with the shear number of us there are.

+1

[RandallT]

It doesn't take a genius to understand there are more living things *humans and animals* producing carbon dioxide and methane alone without adding in the industrial gases being produced. That in combination with the deforestation of a lot of the forests has caused a climate shift for sure. Even if we were living as clean as possible we'd be impacting the environment with the shear number of us there are.

Here are my humble thoughts. I may regret writing this, but I just submit it for consideration without vitriol or anger.

Most sentient people will agree with these things:

- The Earth has been experiencing warming since the industrial revolution, despite a pause for the past couple decades (give or take). The trend is definitely up.

- Humans have been contributing to a rise in CO2 and other greenhouse gases

- It is likely and scientifically sensible that greenhouse gases can lead to warming

That there is 96% agreement or even 100% agreement with that is unsurprising.

Then the harder questions arise. How much is it warming? How much is CO2 rising and could it lead to a tipping point where we overheat?  What does the record of past CO2 levels and temperatures of the earth throughout its history tell us? Is the rise we see now significant compared to the past? Or does the climate constantly vary on orders of magnitude like what we see today? Do we have faith that the scientific community is giving us unbiased research?

In my mind, the answers to the tougher questions was once in favor of the "alarmists" (Al Gore, Michael Mann, etc), and I considered myself a young, hard-charging environmentalist who supported the cause vigorously. A s time goes by, I think science is pointing toward a more measured fear of how we as a human species are harming the planet. While I'm not in favor of raping our earth of our resources, I do not worry much anymore that greenhouse gases are as significant as I once feared. I believe in conserving energy, of course, and searching for the most sustainable sources possible. That's a no-brainer.  My kids, however, live in constant fear that we humans have already basically destroyed the Earth, although they don't seem to do much about it!

Some links that refliect my frame of mind for the past several years, in case anyone is interested.

Dr Patrick Moore, once head of GreenPeace who now heads a group for sustainable forestry:

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/49713946 (skip to 11:30 when he is introduced. This July 8th presentation by Dr Moore is impressive and entertaining to me)

Dr Roy Spencer

http://www.drroyspencer.com/2014/07/my-iccc9-presentations/

Watts Up With That?

http://wattsupwiththat.com/

Hockey Schtick

http://hockeyschtick.blogspot.com/

[Always an 80]

No, it isn't. Not when we're putting THAT MUCH crap into the atmosphere.

Carl Sagan warned about global warming a fairly long time ago. But hey, far be it from me to point out for the umpteenth time the hard science behind all of this.

One guy equals "hard science".  Far be it from me to argue with one guy when several scientists are coming out of the closet on the climate change scam.

[Always an 80]

I bet you don't think that humans are responsible for the hole in the Ozone layer, either.

There are ways to gauge how much CO2 was in the atmosphere before we started measuring it, such as measuring air bubbles trapped in ice cores. Sure, climates change over time naturally, but it's called anthropogenic warming for a reason - it's progressing at an unnatural rate thanks to humans. It's no coincidence that there was an enormous spike in CO2 concentrations starting around the same time as the Industrial Revolution.

http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/ccgg/trends/history.html

It would be intellectually safer for you to think I don't bet.

[iacas]

One guy equals "hard science".  Far be it from me to argue with one guy when several scientists are coming out of the closet on the climate change scam.

No, not one guy. Thousands. The vast, vast, vast majority of scientists. Carl Sagan was just to demonstrate that it's been going on for a long time. But that's okay, keep your head in the sand.

[Always an 80]

It doesn't take a genius to understand there are more living things *humans and animals* producing carbon dioxide and methane alone without adding in the industrial gases being produced. That in combination with the deforestation of a lot of the forests has caused a climate shift for sure. Even if we were living as clean as possible we'd be impacting the environment with the shear number of us there are.

As for considering a singly stated point I have no problem in agreeing with you.  I believe in the validity of negative effects in relation to deforestation.  Our O2 levels are getting dangerously low compared to the past as reflected by ice core sampling.  I will not, however, go all Al Gore/Manbearpig (for those of you who watch Southpark) with this issue.  And for those of you "in the know" to some scientific degree, NOAA is a government subsidy, as are its affiliates like TWC and Intellicast.  This is very much a political issue as well as an environmental one.

Do I want the world to live green?  Of course I do.  I am Cherokee.  I am an animal rescuer.  I am one who talks with my trees, flowers, bushes, as well as the birds, bunnies, snakes and spiders.  I am not a militant blinded from reality to further an agenda.  Only a fool would deny that at least some of this is purely agenda.

[saevel25]

Just a bit of comedy on this subject. At least for those who don't believe in Climate Change.

My favorite line, "The only accurate way to report that one of out four Americans are skeptical of Global Warming is to say a poll finds that one out of four Americans are wrong about something"

[Gunther]

No, not one guy. Thousands. The vast, vast, vast majority of scientists. Carl Sagan was just to demonstrate that it's been going on for a long time. But that's okay, keep your head in the sand.

Lol, one might argue it's you with your head in the sand. Arctic icecis at record highs currently, polar bear proliferation also at record highs, the London college that originally proffered this idea has since been discovered to have fudged the numbers, all the warming "scientists" base their beliefs on computer models that are similarly rigged. There is no science yet today that can prove whatever is happening with the climate is due to man. The earth warms, the earth cools. Has occurred for 4 billion years now, won't stop anytime soon.

[iacas]

Lol, one might argue it's you with your head in the sand.… There is no science yet today that can prove whatever is happening with the climate is due to man. The earth warms, the earth cools. Has occurred for 4 billion years now, won't stop anytime soon.

Riiiiiiight. :doh:

[Always an 80]

No, not one guy. Thousands. The vast, vast, vast majority of scientists. Carl Sagan was just to demonstrate that it's been going on for a long time. But that's okay, keep your head in the sand.

How very sure of yourself to think that only those who believe differently from yourself have their heads in the sand.  My goodness, how wonderful it must be to be as enlightened as yourself.

Three "vast"s.  Thousands (so at least 2000).  That is almost 700 scientists per "vast".  Uh, no.  There is not this kind of support for the issue.  Too many real (not dependent on federal funding) scientists that won't buy into this as hard as you seem to have.

By the way...thank you, but I don't need your permission to keep my "head in the sand" any more than I would presume you needed mine to keep your head any where you chose.