Are you ready for some NFL Football? 2014 Edition.

[saevel25]

I just did another calculation using the Packers/Cowboys game as an example.  If the Packers inflated the ball to the max, 13.5 psig, the ball would have been well below the minimum of 12.5 at the game temperature of 20F.  The NFL now has the problem of determining if the rule applies to all game conditions.  They test inside at most likely close to 70F.  In the really cold games, it will go below the minimum.

Makes me want to go buy an NFL regulation football and do some testing

[Golfingdad]

This is probably the best explanation as to why its a dumb rule that I've seen.

But since I'm a hater, I'm going to spin you.  Remember that game you used as an example of the Vikes not getting in trouble?  They weren't cheating like the Pats, they were simply trying to keep the PSI in the acceptable range!

Dude, come on!

Why'd you ditch Johnson Wagner and his floppy hat!?!?!? Now I gotta go and get used to a whole new avatar.  (Funny thing is I remember when they wore those hats and you took that avatar but I don't remember what you had before.  I'll get used to this one too.)

[Aflighter]

I dont understand why they would feel the need to cheat cause i doubt the colts could beat them 1 out of 10 times in foxboro.I guess they didnt want to take the risk especially considering a trip to superbowl was on the line.Since the NFL would not strip a victory from a team for cheating just like in nascar its worth the risk since theres no win punishment.Like nascar the team doesnt mind a fine or suspension if you get a win especially in a big game.I imagine the NFL will give them a heavy fine but who cares cause they are going to the superbowl.Until they start taking away wins nothing will change.I would have liked to seen what was on them tapes the NFL destroyed in spygate because  obviuously it was pretty bad for nobody to be told what was on them.

[club ho]

Makes me want to go buy an NFL regulation football and do some testing

You and me both!

[dsc123]

Who's excited for the Pro Bowl?!?!?!?!

Cricket...

Dude, come on!

Why'd you ditch Johnson Wagner and his floppy hat!?!?!?   Now I gotta go and get used to a whole new avatar.  (Funny thing is I remember when they wore those hats and you took that avatar but I don't remember what you had before.  I'll get used to this one too.)

Isn't it funny how you start to recognize people by the avatar and its actually kind of hard to get used to new ones?  I'll only keep this one until the super bowl or so.

Before Johnson Wagner I had a trophy that we give to the loser of a golf outing I have with my friends every year.  Its a female golfer and says "MANGINA" on it.  Oh, here...

By rule, the loser has to have that displayed prominently in their home or office.

Wow, going through my photos on here was like a trip down memory lane.  Here are a couple other relevant photos that are saved in my profile or whatever that seemed relevant.....

Every couple of months I send those to my brother in laws.  or is it brothers in law?  brothers in laws?

I dont understand why they would feel the need to cheat cause i doubt the colts could beat them 1 out of 10 times in foxboro.

I think the Jets won 4 games in 2007 when the Pats were caught taping their practice or sideline or whatever.  Its the mentality that you can to gain an edge.  Which is sort of why I think BB should get in trouble regardless of his personal involvement.

[Golfingdad]

Cricket...

Isn't it funny how you start to recognize people by the avatar and its actually kind of hard to get used to new ones?  I'll only keep this one until the super bowl or so.

Before Johnson Wagner I had a trophy that we give to the loser of a golf outing I have with my friends every year.  Its a female golfer and says "MANGINA" on it.  Oh, here...

By rule, the loser has to have that displayed prominently in their home or office.

Wow, going through my photos on here was like a trip down memory lane.  Here are a couple other relevant photos that are saved in my profile or whatever that seemed relevant.....

Every couple of months I send those to my brother in laws.  or is it brothers in law?  brothers in laws?

I think the Jets won 4 games in 2007 when the Pats were caught taping their practice or sideline or whatever.  Its the mentality that you can to gain an edge.  Which is sort of why I think BB should get in trouble regardless of his personal involvement.

It's brother ins law.

I'd laugh at him in that picture on the water slide, but I'm pretty sure that's the same reaction I have when I see a big spider I can't identify or when a bee dive bombs me, so ... I'll reserve judgment.

[boogielicious]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsc123

This is probably the best explanation as to why its a dumb rule that I've seen.

But since I'm a hater, I'm going to spin you.  Remember that game you used as an example of the Vikes not getting in trouble?  They weren't cheating like the Pats, they were simply trying to keep the PSI in the acceptable range!

Does anyone know what the reason for the rule is?  I was thinking it might be more about the kicking game than anything else.  But who knows?

This is just a guess, but the official ball I have says, "inflate 13 lbs" on it.  Wilson probably says it performs best there +/- 1/2 lbs.  We looked up the rule yesterday.  There's nothing about temperature or the the officials have to pressure test each ball.  The rule is very general.  They seem more concerned with the kicking balls.

Rule 2 The Ball

Section 1

BALL DIMENSIONS

The Ball must be a “Wilson,” hand selected, bearing the signature of the Commissioner of the League, Roger Goodell.

The ball shall be made up of an inflated (12 1/2 to 13 1/2 pounds) urethane bladder enclosed in a pebble grained, leather case (natural tan color) without corrugations of any kind. It shall have the form of a prolate spheroid and the size and weight shall be: long axis, 11 to 11 1/4 inches; long circumference, 28 to 28 1/2 inches; short circumference, 21 to 21 1/4 inches; weight, 14 to 15 ounces.

The Referee shall be the sole judge as to whether all balls offered for play comply with these specifications. A pump is to be furnished by the home club, and the balls shall remain under the supervision of the Referee until they are delivered to the ball attendant just prior to the start of the game.

Section 2

BALL SUPPLY

Each team will make 12 primary balls available for testing by the Referee two hours and 15 minutes prior to the starting time of the game to meet League requirements. The home team will also make 12 backup balls available for testing in all stadiums. In addition, the visitors, at their discretion, may bring 12 backup balls to be tested by the Referee for games held in outdoor stadiums. For all games, eight new footballs, sealed in a special box and shipped by the manufacturer to the Referee, will be opened in the officials’ locker room two hours and 15 minutes prior to the starting time of the game. These balls are to be specially marked by the Referee and used exclusively for the kicking game.

In the event a home team ball does not conform to specifications, or its supply is exhausted, the Referee shall secure a proper ball from the visitors and, failing that, use the best available ball. Any such circumstances must be reported to the Commissioner.

In case of rain or a wet, muddy, or slippery field, a playable ball shall be used at the request of the offensive team’s center. The Game Clock shall not stop for such action (unless undue delay occurs).

Note: It is the responsibility of the home team to furnish playable balls at all times by attendants from either side of the playing field.

[ghalfaire]

Quote:

Rule 2 The Ball

Section 1

BALL DIMENSIONS

The Ball must be a “Wilson,” hand selected, bearing the signature of the Commissioner of the League, Roger Goodell.

The ball shall be made up of an inflated (12 1/2 to 13 1/2 pounds) urethane bladder enclosed in a pebble grained, leather case (natural tan color) without corrugations of any kind. It shall have the form of a prolate spheroid and the size and weight shall be: long axis, 11 to 11 1/4 inches; long circumference, 28 to 28 1/2 inches; short circumference, 21 to 21 1/4 inches; weight, 14 to 15 ounces.

The Referee shall be the sole judge as to whether all balls offered for play comply with these specifications. A pump is to be furnished by the home club, and the balls shall remain under the supervision of the Referee until they are delivered to the ball attendant just prior to the start of the game.

Section 2

BALL SUPPLY

Each team will make 12 primary balls available for testing by the Referee two hours and 15 minutes prior to the starting time of the game to meet League requirements. The home team will also make 12 backup balls available for testing in all stadiums. In addition, the visitors, at their discretion, may bring 12 backup balls to be tested by the Referee for games held in outdoor stadiums. For all games, eight new footballs, sealed in a special box and shipped by the manufacturer to the Referee, will be opened in the officials’ locker room two hours and 15 minutes prior to the starting time of the game. These balls are to be specially marked by the Referee and used exclusively for the kicking game.

In the event a home team ball does not conform to specifications, or its supply is exhausted, the Referee shall secure a proper ball from the visitors and, failing that, use the best available ball. Any such circumstances must be reported to the Commissioner.

In case of rain or a wet, muddy, or slippery field, a playable ball shall be used at the request of the offensive team’s center. The Game Clock shall not stop for such action (unless undue delay occurs).

Note: It is the responsibility of the home team to furnish playable balls at all times by attendants from either side of the playing field.

I can only say I am dumbfounded.  Apparently the pressure in the football isn't all that important to the NFL because the way this rule is written only ensures game ball has air it and the referee thought it was OK to play with.

[boogielicious]

Quote:

Rule 2 The Ball

Section 1

BALL DIMENSIONS

The Ball must be a “Wilson,” hand selected, bearing the signature of the Commissioner of the League, Roger Goodell.

The ball shall be made up of an inflated (12 1/2 to 13 1/2 pounds) urethane bladder enclosed in a pebble grained, leather case (natural tan color) without corrugations of any kind. It shall have the form of a prolate spheroid and the size and weight shall be: long axis, 11 to 11 1/4 inches; long circumference, 28 to 28 1/2 inches; short circumference, 21 to 21 1/4 inches; weight, 14 to 15 ounces.

The Referee shall be the sole judge as to whether all balls offered for play comply with these specifications. A pump is to be furnished by the home club, and the balls shall remain under the supervision of the Referee until they are delivered to the ball attendant just prior to the start of the game.

Section 2

BALL SUPPLY

Each team will make 12 primary balls available for testing by the Referee two hours and 15 minutes prior to the starting time of the game to meet League requirements. The home team will also make 12 backup balls available for testing in all stadiums. In addition, the visitors, at their discretion, may bring 12 backup balls to be tested by the Referee for games held in outdoor stadiums. For all games, eight new footballs, sealed in a special box and shipped by the manufacturer to the Referee, will be opened in the officials’ locker room two hours and 15 minutes prior to the starting time of the game. These balls are to be specially marked by the Referee and used exclusively for the kicking game.

In the event a home team ball does not conform to specifications, or its supply is exhausted, the Referee shall secure a proper ball from the visitors and, failing that, use the best available ball. Any such circumstances must be reported to the Commissioner.

In case of rain or a wet, muddy, or slippery field, a playable ball shall be used at the request of the offensive team’s center. The Game Clock shall not stop for such action (unless undue delay occurs).

Note: It is the responsibility of the home team to furnish playable balls at all times by attendants from either side of the playing field.

I can only say I am dumbfounded.  Apparently the pressure in the football isn't all that important to the NFL because the way this rule is written only ensures game ball has air it and the referee thought it was OK to play with.

Plus, if they haven't ruled on the Vikings getting caught heating the balls on Nov 30th yet, we won't see a decision on this any time soon.

[Gunther]

He threw ones with 13 psi in the second half of the AFC Championship.  They only scored 28 points.  The refs changed the balls at half time.  It made no difference. I guess you haven't been paying attention.

They've been deflating balls for years. 187 touches per fumble vs league avg of 105 since 2010. That's an outlier not possible due to good coaching. C'mon Boog, try to be objective, you typically are but have gone off the deep end here. http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/blog/?p=2932

[boogielicious]

Quote:

Originally Posted by boogielicious

He threw ones with 13 psi in the second half of the AFC Championship.  They only scored 28 points.  The refs changed the balls at half time.  It made no difference. I guess you haven't been paying attention.

They've been deflating balls for years. 187 touches per fumble vs league avg of 105 since 2010. That's an outlier not possible due to good coaching. C'mon Boog, try to be objective, you typically are but have gone off the deep end here.

http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/blog/?p=2932

LOL!  They fumbled three times in the Ravens game and just did not lose possession.  Steven Ridley was a fumble machine.  They fumbled twice against Indy but they fumbles went out of bounds.  You're the one who is reaching because of your hate.

[dsc123]

LOL!  They fumbled three times in the Ravens game and just did not lose possession.  Steven Ridley was a fumble machine.  They fumbled twice against Indy but they fumbles went out of bounds.  You're the one who is reaching because of your hate.

Did you read the article?  It included all fumbles, not just fumbles lost.

[dsc123]

There's a lot of interesting stuff on that site.

Quote:

The Patriots went 14-1 (93%) in Tom Brady’s home games played in wet weather since 2007.  Their only loss was to the San Francisco 49ers in 2012.  For some comparison, the Patriots went 51-9 (85%) in home games played in dry weather during that same period.  On average, in both wet and dry weather, the Patriots were favored by approximately 9 ppg.  In the NFL, 9 point favorites should win the game approximately 81% of the time.

......

The Patriots went 31-29 ATS (52%) in dry weather home games, but 10-5 ATS (67%) in wet weather home games.  The oddsmakers on the games projected the Patriots would score an average of 28 ppg, whether the conditions were wet or dry.  But the Patriots scored 35 ppg in wet weather (+7) vs 31 ppg in dry weather.  They also held opponents to 5 ppg fewer in wet weather home games.

This doesn't conclusively prove anything (small sample), but its not nothing.  You might think they are just good in bad weather because...well I don't know why...but now that they've been caught cheating in a way to counteract wet weather, that's as good a theory as anything else.

That's the problem with cheating.  It casts a cloud over everything you've ever done.

[Golfingdad]

They've been deflating balls for years. 187 touches per fumble vs league avg of 105 since 2010. That's an outlier not possible due to good coaching. C'mon Boog, try to be objective, you typically are but have gone off the deep end here. http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/blog/?p=2932

Why couldn't it simply be that they are good? To say that they obviously cheated because they fumbled less is a wtc7 level jump to conclusions.

[dsc123]

Why couldn't it simply be that they are good? To say that they obviously cheated because they fumbled less is a wtc7 level jump to conclusions.

What I find most incredible about that article is that the patriots have been a revolving door at RB.  From 2007-2014, they've started, Corey Dillon, Kevin Faulk, Sammy Morris, Benjarvis Green-Ellis, Stevan Ridley, James Develin, Legarette Blount.  Despite having all of those players, they had record low numbers of fumbles.

The team that fumbled the most since 2010 (Redskins), was closer to the team that fumbled the second fewest (Baltimore), than the second best was to the Patriots.  31 teams fell between 37 and 55 plays per fumble.  The patriots were at 75.

Part of its probably coaching emphasis, part of it is that this is when they started to rely on Brady--when he changed from Trent Dilfer to Payton Manning--so they were running the ball less, and part of it is probably deflated balls.

[Abu3baid]

What I find most incredible about that article is that the patriots have been a revolving door at RB.  From 2007-2014, they've started, Corey Dillon, Kevin Faulk, Sammy Morris, Benjarvis Green-Ellis, Stevan Ridley, James Develin, Legarette Blount.  Despite having all of those players, they had record low numbers of fumbles.   Part of its probably coaching emphasis, part of it is that this is when they started to rely on Brady--when he changed from Trent Dilfer to Payton Manning--so they were running the ball less, and part of it is probably deflated balls. :-P

When something like this breaks out it is naturally expected to have people within the organization or people who have left start talking about this specific issue. The fact that no one has come out tells me that this is a non issue and not as big a conspiracy as everyone is making it sound.. Oh and in terms of fumble average what is the team with the highest fumble rate per amount of touches? They must be over inflating the ball. :)

[dsc123]

When something like this breaks out it is naturally expected to have people within the organization or people who have left start talking about this specific issue. The fact that no one has come out tells me that this is a non issue and not as big a conspiracy as everyone is making it sound.. Oh and in terms of fumble average what is the team with the highest fumble rate per amount of touches? They must be over inflating the ball. :)

The Patriots cheated for 7 years before mangini ratted them out.

[Abu3baid]

The Patriots cheated for 7 years before mangini ratted them out.

There must be some disgruntled pats employees who would want to get into the middle of things now. What motivation do they have for keeping their silence? Do I think they deflated the balls.. Yeah, probably.. Is it a big deal? No, it is much ado about nothing. Just not this big conspiracy everyone including the media is making it sound like..