How to Make a Centered Hip Turn

[mmoan2]

I wanted to add something to this. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I never understood how you could get any weight transfer to your back leg on the backswing by having a centered hip turn. In baseball, most power hitters load up on their back leg and have lateral motion of up to a foot. For a pitcher it's the same thing. A windup allows you to load up on your back leg by swaying back considerably, and then you explode outward with the energy stored on your back side.

I was told in my first evolvr lesson to try this drill to reduce my lateral hip sway on the backswing: Put a basketball between a wall and my left hip, and then practice taking backswings without allowing the ball to drop. This would ensure that I wasn't swaying backward, but instead rotating, else the ball would fall as I moved. I noticed that even though I wasn;t swaying, I still felt a powerful tension in my rear leg - the same kind of power that I achieved swaying back. Here's my take on why this is true:

At setup, your hips are parallel to the target line. When you rotate, though, your body's center of gravity is moving backward because the bulk of your upper body is now behind the center of your body. The mere fact that your body's weight has shifted back, even if your hips have not swayed laterally, ensures that your weight will plant on your rear leg more than your front. By not moving your hips backward, though, it makes it much easier to produce a tremendous amount of weight transfer forward on the downswing because you don't need to "recover" from the lateral movement you used to load up on your rear leg. It's a more efficient means for generating power.

Is this analysis correct?

[mvmac]

mvmac,

I don't mean to hijack this thread with a discussion about X Factor, but the article you reference is about McLean's New X Factor.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Original X Factor written by McLean in the early 90's measured the gap at the top of the back swing and taught to restrict hip turn while turning shoulders to maximize the X gap.  However, Nicklaus talked about not thinking about restricting hip turn, but his bent right knee served to do so.  That doesn't really make sense to me, but anyway, McLean came out with the New X Factor, which measures the gap at the point of impact and promotes maximizing hip turn to the front.

We have to be careful when we talk about what happens and what someone feels happens, can be two different things. Again from this article McLean's model hip turn ranges from 40-65 degrees, which IMO isn't very "restrictive".

I wanted to add something to this. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I never understood how you could get any weight transfer to your back leg on the backswing by having a centered hip turn. In baseball, most power hitters load up on their back leg and have lateral motion of up to a foot. For a pitcher it's the same thing. A windup allows you to load up on your back leg by swaying back considerably, and then you explode outward with the energy stored on your back side.

Couple things

- Baseball and golf are different. I'm not really a baseball expert (the differences have been discussed a lot on this site) but the golf ball being on the ground changes a lot of things.

- In terms of actual weight, if we cut the golfers in half at A4 and weighed each side, it would be close to 50/50 or 55/45 favoring the rear side. This part really doesn't matter though because the golf swing is a dynamic motion.

- There is definitely a pressure shift under the trail foot on the backswing, watch this

At setup, your hips are parallel to the target line. When you rotate, though, your body's center of gravity is moving backward because the bulk of your upper body is now behind the center of your body. The mere fact that your body's weight has shifted back, even if your hips have not swayed laterally, ensures that your weight will plant on your rear leg more than your front. By not moving your hips backward, though, it makes it much easier to produce a tremendous amount of weight transfer forward on the downswing because you don't need to "recover" from the lateral movement you used to load up on your rear leg. It's a more efficient means for generating power.

Is this analysis correct?

Yeah check out that video. Not sure what you mean by "the bulk of your upper body is now behind the center of your body". Watch Grant's swing from overhead, here's Jack.

[Ernest Jones]

- In terms of actual weight, if we cut the golfers in half at A4 and weighed each side, it would be close to 50/50 or 55/45 favoring the rear side.

Won't sell many golf lessons doing that.

[mmoan2]

We have to be careful when we talk about what happens and what someone feels happens, can be two different things. Again from this article McLean's model hip turn ranges from 40-65 degrees, which IMO isn't very "restrictive".

Couple things

- Baseball and golf are different. I'm not really a baseball expert (the differences have been discussed a lot on this site) but the golf ball being on the ground changes a lot of things.

- In terms of actual weight, if we cut the golfers in half at A4 and weighed each side, it would be close to 50/50 or 55/45 favoring the rear side. This part really doesn't matter though because the golf swing is a dynamic motion.

- There is definitely a pressure shift under the trail foot on the backswing, watch this

Yeah check out that video. Not sure what you mean by "the bulk of your upper body is now behind the center of your body". Watch Grant's swing from overhead, here's Jack.

I'm wading into waters in which I can't swim with the technical analysis stuff...  I think all I need to know is that I can still feel strong without swaying my hips. It's good to see that my instinct about more pressure being on the rear leg at A4 is correct, though, because when I swing using the drills prescribed it sure feels that way. Question, though - if the weight distribution of your cut-in-half golfer at A4 is around 50-50, how is it possible to have 70% of the pressure on the rear leg then at A4? How do you create the pressure without shifting your weight?

Come to think of it, when I look at your picture of Jack, I don't see how it's possible that his weight distribution is 50-50, or anywhere close, at A4. At setup, if you draw a line through the center of his body, half of his weight is forward of center and vice-versa. At A4, though, it appears that the bulk of his mass has shifted to behind center.

Anyway, again, I think for folks like me, who gives a whether 92.45% of your mass is behind center at A4. As long as the proper moves are being made, such things are for instructors to know. It's not like I can consciously say "ok, time to make 70% of my body weight shift back at the top of my backswing!"

[billchao]

I'm wading into waters in which I can't swim with the technical analysis stuff...  I think all I need to know is that I can still feel strong without swaying my hips. It's good to see that my instinct about more pressure being on the rear leg at A4 is correct, though, because when I swing using the drills prescribed it sure feels that way. Question, though - if the weight distribution of your cut-in-half golfer at A4 is around 50-50, how is it possible to have 70% of the pressure on the rear leg then at A4? How do you create the pressure without shifting your weight?

Muscles. We aren't static objects, so our muscles exert force against the ground. In the case of the golf swing, we press down more on the one side than the other.

[mvmac]

Question, though - if the weight distribution of your cut-in-half golfer at A4 is around 50-50, how is it possible to have 70% of the pressure on the rear leg then at A4? How do you create the pressure without shifting your weight?

Did you watch the video?

The trail leg decreasing in flex increases pressure under the foot. The golfer is "pushing" the ground away from them.

[mmoan2]

Did you watch the video?

The trail leg decreasing in flex increases pressure under the foot. The golfer is "pushing" the ground away from them.

I did, but I had to turn the volume off I just looked at the pretty pictures. I get it now.

[mvmac]

[Greentoothe]

Wow.  super helpful.  great visual too.  thanks for posting!

[bste]

Great video. Thank you, again @mvmac

[mvmac]

Hogan

[joekelly]

Greg Norman, arguably the best driver of his era, long and straight, offers his advice on turning the hips  using a memory aid : RPB.  Right Pocket Back. So welcome you to check out a short video of him discussing his  pocket, and hip, movement.

[mmoan2]

Does anyone find that more hip turn on the back swing can help eliminate a hook as well? I find that I've been concentrating on turning my hips more recently, and when I do, I hook the ball far less. My guess is that less hip turn results in the upper body over-rotating into impact with a closed club-face, but I've yet to fire up my camera recently to check it out. Just started playing again after a month hiatus, and this was a thought of mine.

[mvmac]

Does anyone find that more hip turn on the back swing can help eliminate a hook as well? I find that I've been concentrating on turning my hips more recently, and when I do, I hook the ball far less. My guess is that less hip turn results in the upper body over-rotating into impact with a closed club-face, but I've yet to fire up my camera recently to check it out. Just started playing again after a month hiatus, and this was a thought of mine.

It can and I can see it helping a hook for a player that under-turns and then tips the head back on the downswing to swing out and create some axis tilt.

It sounds to me like you're describing a pull or a pull hook. Yes turning the hips properly on the backswing can help simplify the sequencing and help the lower body "engage" first on the downswing.

[mmoan2]

It can and I can see it helping a hook for a player that under-turns and then tips the head back on the downswing to swing out and create some axis tilt.

It sounds to me like you're describing a pull or a pull hook. Yes turning the hips properly on the backswing can help simplify the sequencing and help the lower body "engage" first on the downswing.

Yes, I think the term pull is correct. That's when a ball just goes left, but straight left from impact, rather than curve left, correct?

[mvmac]

Yes, I think the term pull is correct. That's when a ball just goes left, but straight left from impact, rather than curve left, correct?

Correct.

[Gboroman]

I practiced this last weekend at the range with some good results.  I just need to get it "grooved" now.  I used to focus on maintaining the same flex of my back knee throughout the swing and, now, I know this is wrong.

Should I feel like I get a healthy percentage of weight on my back heel at A4?  It seems to help my hip turn.  I was watching Breed this week and he said one thing he learned this year is that he reaches full weight shift rearwards at A2 and begins shifting weight forward before he reaches A4.  What are your thoughts on that?

[mvmac]

Should I feel like I get a healthy percentage of weight on my back heel at A4?

It's tough for me say what you will feel because it's specific to you and I've never seen your swing. Having said that I can see how allowing your right knee to lessen in flex, something you've never done before, can lead to you feeling more weight into your right heel.

I was watching Breed this week and he said one thing he learned this year is that he reaches full weight shift rearwards at A2 and begins shifting weight forward before he reaches A4.  What are your thoughts on that?

Breed may have gotten on a force plate to see his pressure numbers, not sure I didn't see the segment. He might have seen his pressure numbers go from something like 35% left, 65% right at A3 to 40/60 at A4. Weight would be close to 50/50 at A4.

More on that here.