The Official (Not Official At All) Drugs & Alcohol Thread

[RJH999]

Drugs are bad....MmmKay...

Boom. Case closed.

[tmac20]

I was obviously referring things such as gangland style shootings over drug turf.   Let me know if you need me to hold your hand through any any other posts.

I'd appreciate that, thanks. :-) I'd love to see how much better the world would be if cocaine and crystal meth was legal. :doh:

[Hammer 4]

One last thing re: legalizing drugs. And if so there would be No black market. Welp alcohol is legal, yet there are moonshiners running the back roads all the time. Same for maryjane where you can obtain a script for MJ so easy, yet there's 1000's of tons of the stuff crossing our borders all the time.

Crap, just realized, this is the Wrong dang thread....

[Ernest Jones]

Drugs are bad....MmmKay...

Lol. Whole heartedly agree. Never said otherwise. Contrast the US during prohibition and the US today. What's the better situation, and did the US fall apart after prohibition? Was everyone wasted all the time and stealing to support their habits? Did any babies get eaten? How many people were murdered during prohibition directly because of the illegal liquor business? How many people have been murdered directly because of the legal booze business? Booze can be really bad for you too but nobody's getting gunned down and that's an improvement. Look at countries that have legalized (or in some cases decriminalized) marijuana. They're in better shape that either Canada or the US and the truth of the matter is, that in the vast majority of cases, these places have a lower user rate than we do here in North America, better education. Look, drugs are bad, no question, and I hope my children steer clear, but you can't legislate it out of existence and trying to do so just creates a breeding ground for the "bad guys".

[Hammer 4]

Lol. Whole heartedly agree. Never said otherwise.

Contrast the US during prohibition and the US today. What's the better situation, and did the US fall apart after prohibition? Was everyone wasted all the time and stealing to support their habits? Did any babies get eaten? How many people were murdered during prohibition directly because of the illegal liquor business? How many people have been murdered directly because of the legal booze business? Booze can be really bad for you too but nobody's getting gunned down and that's an improvement.

Look at countries that have legalized (or in some cases decriminalized) marijuana. They're in better shape that either Canada or the US and the truth of the matter is, that in the vast majority of cases, these places have a lower user rate than we do here in North America, better education. Look, drugs are bad, no question, and I hope my children steer clear, but you can't legislate it out of existence and trying to do so just creates a breeding ground for the "bad guys".

I think comparing prohibition to today's drug problem is kinda off, with regards to how the booze runners did things. Granted there was a bunch of violence, but compared to today, it was mild. I also think that booze is bad, had 2 friends and my mother in law killed due to drunk drivers.

My point is this, if you legalize pot, then why not coke, if you do the same for coke, then why not meth, heroin, ect..at some point I believe we have to say No for the good of all people and the state of every counties well being. Also just cuz you legalize a substance, does not mean there will be no black market for it. as I posted in the other thread, there's still the moonshiners out there running liquor.

Back to my first point about the violence that goes along with drugs like coke, even pot nowadays. Those guys have no problem killing innocent people, even kids who did nada wrong, only to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. If we say, o.k you can use whatever drug for personal use, imho that's like saying to the dealers, we give up, you win, because believe me, they will still have a market.

Also, for those that use pot sometimes, unless you grow your own, chances are your product came from the cartel, whether you know it or not. So saying pot is o.k. for recreational use, only makes the cartel stronger, do we need to be supporting people like that..?

I can honestly see what your saying, but I think your not considering the underlying problems, or consequences of legalizing some, or all drugs. Again, at some point we have to just say no.

BTW, a straw man, I'm not. Walk in my shoes for 50 years...

[jamo]

Also just cuz you legalize a substance, does not mean there will be no black market for it. as I posted in the other thread, there's still the moonshiners out there running liquor.

That raises the question: what does violence among illicit alcohol runners look like today vs. during prohibition? If you can buy the stuff at CVS, would people really kill for it in the same way? [quote name="Hammer 4" url="/t/76240/the-official-not-official-at-all-drugs-alcohol-thread/0_30#post_1031215"]Also, for those that use pot sometimes, unless you grow your own, chances are your product came from the cartel, whether you know it or not. So saying pot is o.k. for recreational use, only makes the cartel stronger, do we need to be supporting people like that..? [/quote] The stuff they sell in the legal dispensaries in Colorado, where is that sourced? I was assuming that most of it (all?) was U.S.-grown. Is that feasible for the entire country? If cocaine and similarly harder drugs were legalized, what would the purchasing system be? Most states pretty tightly regulate the sale of alcohol and tobacco, and both of those markets seem to be relatively violence-free.

[Hammer 4]

That raises the question: what does violence among illicit alcohol runners look like today vs. during prohibition? If you can buy the stuff at CVS, would people really kill for it in the same way?

The stuff they sell in the legal dispensaries in Colorado, where is that sourced? I was assuming that most of it (all?) was U.S.-grown. Is that feasible for the entire country?

If cocaine and similarly harder drugs were legalized, what would the purchasing system be? Most states pretty tightly regulate the sale of alcohol and tobacco, and both of those markets seem to be relatively violence-free.

Just saying, that just cuz it's legal,it doesn't mean there's no black market for it. Not sure if there's any violence there.

I couldn't imagine making coke and harder drugs legal.

[cipher]

Anyone see Lawless?  That movie was awesome!

[jamo]

Just saying, that just cuz it's legal,it doesn't mean there's no black market for it. Not sure if there's any violence there.

But if there's no violence among moonshiners, who really cares that there is a black market? Put another way: who's killing for something you can just buy at Stop & Shop?

[Hammer 4]

But if there's no violence among moonshiners, who really cares that there is a black market?

Put another way: who's killing for something you can just buy at Stop & Shop?

The federal government does. They don't pay taxes like you and I do. I'd be all for abolishing taxes though..

[jamo]

The federal government does. They don't pay taxes like you and I do. I'd be all for abolishing taxes though..:-D

Right, so the lost tax revenue is a bummer, but it's not a huge piece of the pie. They currently take in $0 in taxes on weed, cocaine, etc.

[Hammer 4]

Right, so the lost tax revenue is a bummer, but it's not a huge piece of the pie. They currently take in $0 in taxes on weed, cocaine, etc.

Lost tax is the least of my concern re: legalizing coke, ect. it's the effect it would have on the population at large. Just cuz something is out there, doesn't mean it should be consumed, legal, or not.

That's my opinion, and I'm stickin to it.

[meenman]

This whole thing is just the tip of the iceberg.

Once the stoners get their way and make pot semi-legal, coke will be the next step. Will the pro-druggies be advocating legal heroin use at that point?

There would be one good purpose to legalizing all of it - thinning the herd. More ODs by dummies, less of my tax dollars supporting them.

[RJH999]

This whole thing is just the tip of the iceberg. Once the stoners get their way and make pot semi-legal, coke will be the next step. Will the pro-druggies be advocating legal heroin use at that point? There would be one good purpose to legalizing all of it - thinning the herd. More ODs by dummies, less of my tax dollars supporting them.

Believe me, stoners have no problem getting weed illegally :)

[Hammer 4]

Believe me, stoners have no problem getting weed illegally :)

And guess who that money is going to..

[RJH999]

And guess who that money is going to..

Drug dealers? Pablo Escobar? Pablo Escobar's son? Dick Cheney?

[jamo]

Drug dealers? Pablo Escobar? Pablo Escobar's son? Dick Cheney?

Heisenberg!

[RJH999]

Heisenberg!

Bingo! We have our answer Hammer.