TV ad said that Callaway irons 20 yd longer?

[iacas]

So, I suppose the static loft is really irrelevant because of the hosel generally being in lead deflection.

No. We still have different lofted irons after all… ?

Club fitting is still both really important and not terribly important. For the vast majority of people, it's really important to be within the right neighborhood, but not very important to be in the right yard.

[turtleback]

Long story short:

There's way, way more to a club's launch angle, height, and distance than static loft. Way more.

There's way, way more to a club's total distance than the length of the shaft, too.

Club manufacturers are guilty of building longer, stronger clubs to satisfy marketing claims.

At the same time, people are overly harsh and overly quick IMO to "blame" them for "deceptive" marketing (etc.) for doing this, when there are often very real engineering reasons for the stronger lofts.

Longer clubs these days, though, I'm calling nearly 100% marketing, as I don't see any engineering reasons a modern 5- or 6-iron should be the length of a 1970s 2-iron.

Well, you know a lot more about this than I do so I will have to take your word for it.

[iacas]

Well, you know a lot more about this than I do so I will have to take your word for it.

Rich, even if that weren't the case, one of the points I was trying to make is that the 6-iron that goes as far as the other set's 4-iron is 4° weaker and 0.625" shorter .

So clearly there's more to distance than loft and length.

[DrvFrShow]

Numbers numbers numbers. Math math math. My worst subject. Here's the specs for the Cobra BioCell Irons.

Model	Loft	Lie	Length (Graphite)	Swing Weight (Graphite)	Length (Steel)	Swing Weight (Steel)	Stock Flex	RH/LH
3	18.0°	60°	40"	D1	39.75"	D2	S, R, L	RH/LH
4	20.0°	61°	39.25"	D1	39"	D2	S, R, L	RH/LH
5	23.0°	61.5°	38.5"	D1	38.25"	D2	S, R, L	RH/LH
6	26.5°	62°	37.75"	D1	37.5"	D2	S, R, L	RH/LH
7	30.5°	62.5°	37.25"	D1	37"	D2	S, R, L	RH/LH
8	35.0°	63°	36.75"	D1	36.5"	D2	S, R, L	RH/LH
9	40.0°	63.5°	36.25"	D1	36"	D2	S, R, L	RH/LH
PW	45.0°	64°	36"	D2	35.75"	D3	S, R, L	RH/LH
GW	50.0°	64°	35.75"	D2	35.5"	D3	S, R, L	RH/LH
SW	55.0°	64°	35.5"	D3	35.25"	D4	S, R, L	RH/LH
LW	60.0°	64°	35.5"	D3	35.25"	D4	S, R, L	RH

And Taylormade:

Looks like Callaway is trying to one up the competition.

[mvmac]

Looks like Callaway is trying to one up the competition.

I'm assuming you're comparing the lofts?

The Cobra irons and R1 6-irons are a .5 degree weaker than the BB irons. As @iacas as pointed out numerous times in the thread, there's more to length than loft.

Erik also highlighted that the BB 6-iron goes as far as the Razr XL's 4-iron which is 4° weaker and 0.625" shorter .

[DrvFrShow]

I'm assuming you're comparing the lofts?

The Cobra irons and R1 6-irons are a .5 degree weaker than the BB irons. As @iacas as pointed out numerous times in the thread, there's more to length than loft.

Erik also highlighted that the BB 6-iron goes as far as the Razr XL's 4-iron which is 4° weaker and 0.625" shorter.

Not just lofts. Assuming you're going with steel shafts and not graphite, the BB irons are longer, too.

I agree, why don't they just put loft degrees on the clubs? Why? Because most of us were brought up in the old number system. And in fiction, beating someone over the head with a 40 degree just doesn't sound right.

[Lihu]

Not just lofts. Assuming you're going with steel shafts and not graphite, the BB irons are longer, too.

I agree, why don't they just put loft degrees on the clubs? Why? Because most of us were brought up in the old number system. And in fiction, beating someone over the head with a 40 degree just doesn't sound right.

The problem is that static loft by itself really doesn't mean a whole lot , and it's much harder to remember a 2 or possibly 3 digit number (for fractions) than a single digit. For example, my Burner irons with roughly the same loft as my Mizuno don't even have close to similar flights. The shaft flex is different, the shaft lengths are different, the launch angles are different, etc.

Everything is different. So, it really doesn't buy much to write the lofts on your clubs, and is harder to remember.

[saevel25]

The problem is that static loft by itself really doesn't mean a whole lot , and it's much harder to remember a 2 or possibly 3 digit number (for fractions) than a single digit. For example, my Burner irons with roughly the same loft as my Mizuno don't even have close to similar flights. The shaft flex is different, the shaft lengths are different, the launch angles are different, etc. Everything is different. So, it really doesn't buy much to write the lofts on your clubs, and is harder to remember.

Pretty much. I get someone people get confused at the fitting process. Really it isn't that big of a deal. Keep the labels the same, figure out what clubs you like and hit them. It isn't rocket science.

[DrvFrShow]

Pretty much. I get someone people get confused at the fitting process. Really it isn't that big of a deal. Keep the labels the same, figure out what clubs you like and hit them. It isn't rocket science.

This, but we get all this crap thrown at us in marketing ads. And our neighbors fill us with a bunch of conflicting information. That's what happened to me when I ordered a set of Ping irons last year. There was so much uproar around that order that I cancelled it before they shipped. I had a set of Cobra Bafflers in a senior flex which were my starter set, but I was swinging a lot harder now... a lot - my drives were 175 when I was playing them. Last summer they were over 210 when I ordered the Pings G25s.

"You'll never be able to hit them!" Roar Roar Roar Roar Roar.

So eventually I ignored all advice because I was totally confused yet needed new shafts, so I bought Cobra BioCells in R flex, because I liked the other set of clubs, and because I like Lexi Thompson and she signed with Cobra. I tried them and liked them.

I think the entire industry is confused. I think most people are confused about this stuff. And it's at the point when it comes to buying a product, I read the reviews as far as quality of build goes. Then I try stuff and if I like it, it might go on my wish list. If I don't, no big deal. Gear Acquisition Syndrome (GAS) can get very expensive very quickly.

[saevel25]

This, but we get all this crap thrown at us in marketing ads. And our neighbors fill us with a bunch of conflicting information. That's what happened to me when I ordered a set of Ping irons last year. There was so much uproar around that order that I cancelled it before they shipped. I had a set of Cobra Bafflers in a senior flex which were my starter set, but I was swinging a lot harder now... a lot - my drives were 175 when I was playing them. Last summer they were over 210 when I ordered the Pings G25s.

Please articulate that paragraph better. I have no idea what you are talking about.

I think the entire industry is confused. I think most people are confused about this stuff. And it's at the point when it comes to buying a product, I read the reviews as far as quality of build goes. Then I try stuff and if I like it, it might go on my wish list. If I don't, no big deal. Gear Acquisition Syndrome (GAS) can get very expensive very quickly.

Confused about what?

[Lihu]

This, but we get all this crap thrown at us in marketing ads. And our neighbors fill us with a bunch of conflicting information. That's what happened to me when I ordered a set of Ping irons last year. There was so much uproar around that order that I cancelled it before they shipped. I had a set of Cobra Bafflers in a senior flex which were my starter set, but I was swinging a lot harder now... a lot - my drives were 175 when I was playing them. Last summer they were over 210 when I ordered the Pings G25s.

"You'll never be able to hit them!" Roar Roar Roar Roar Roar.

So eventually I ignored all advice because I was totally confused yet needed new shafts, so I bought Cobra BioCells in R flex, because I liked the other set of clubs, and because I like Lexi Thompson and she signed with Cobra. I tried them and liked them.

I think the entire industry is confused. I think most people are confused about this stuff. And it's at the point when it comes to buying a product, I read the reviews as far as quality of build goes. Then I try stuff and if I like it, it might go on my wish list. If I don't, no big deal. Gear Acquisition Syndrome (GAS) can get very expensive very quickly.

If you were fit for them, just don't listen to these people. Get what makes you feel good, because you're the one toting these clubs around and you should feel good about it.

[DrvFrShow]

If you were fit for them, just don't listen to these people. Get what makes you feel good, because you're the one toting these clubs around and you should feel good about it.

Exactly. I think the stores don't like selling Cobra because Cobra golf will sell individual clubs and sets online direct, and they sell with free shipping . The stores add on a "shipping charge" markup, so if you know about this, you'll go into the store, try the clubs then go online and buy direct from Cobra. Get a clue retailers - don't add in an 8% shipping charge.

[Lastpick]

I just starting hitting Callaway Apex irons.  Graphite shafts, regular flex, two degrees uprite with mid size grips.  Six iron is 27 degrees with a swing weight of D0 (per web site) and I carry it 172 yards.  The Apex irons are capable of fade or draw which I couldn't do with the Mizuno JPX pro that are about three years old.

I will also add the the Apex are great looking irons and are listed as game improvement irons.

[Lihu]

I just starting hitting Callaway Apex irons.  Graphite shafts, regular flex, two degrees uprite with mid size grips.  Six iron is 27 degrees with a swing weight of D0 (per web site) and I carry it 172 yards.  The Apex irons are capable of fade or draw which I couldn't do with the Mizuno JPX pro that are about three years old.

I will also add the the Apex are great looking irons and are listed as game improvement irons.

Did you compare them to the BB irons?

[Lastpick]

Did you compare them to the BB irons?

Nope.  I got the irons in August.  I'm not sure the BB had been released at this time.  No regrets on the Apex.  Expensive irons, but I keep a set of irons for at least three years.  I narrowed my choice to the Apex or Titlest AP1 714.  I chose Apex after viewing youtube reviews that  claimed the apex was more forgiving.  I should also add that these irons did add yards to my carry distance and will stop the ball on the green as well as any I have hit.  I also bought the BB driver, nine degree loft with regular flex.  It is much longer than my Titlest 910 D3 driver.  The Titlest had a better sound and feel, but was 20 yards shorter than the BB.  I don't know if it is the clubhead or the shaft, but 20 yards is significant.

[rkim291968]

Today, I went to Golfsmith to test the 2014 Callaway Big Bertha iron vs mine (Callaway X20).  If it hits 1 - 2 clubs longer and straighter, I was going to buy one.  Golfsmith demo bay only had a 7 iron for me to play with.  No problem.  I brought my whole iron set and took my 7 iron out of the bag.  Both clubs were of regular flex, graphite stock shaft.

The distance test resulted in BB going about 15 yards longer than mine on average.  That's almost two club lengths.  I did my own analysis on how.

1) The loft - BB's loft was about one club stronger than mine.  Accordingly, ball trajectory was noticeably lower.   This may explain about 6 - 8 yards of the 15 yard difference.  So, one club length difference is easily explained by a loft manipulation by Callaway.

2) Shaft length - BB was 0.25 inch longer.   It probably added a yard or two at best.

The above two explain about 10+ yards gain.  It's no magic and it's no secret sauce.  It's what every golf equipment company seems to be doing for some time.  Anyway, the rest of Callaway claim (of 1 - 2 clubs longer) must come from somewhere else.

3) Ball seems to fly out of BB's club face.  I think this plus whatever the difference with shaft gave me the other 5 yards.  I consider this to be the actual gain of 5 yards on average.

Would I spend $1000 to upgrade my iron set for 5 yard actual gain?  If I am gunning for a senior tour, I may.   I'd rather wait a few years and buy this from Ebay at 1/2 price or look for other clubs that can suit me better.

[mvmac]

The distance test resulted in BB going about 15 yards longer than mine on average.  That's almost two club lengths.  I did my own analysis on how.

1) The loft - BB's loft was about one club stronger than mine.  Accordingly, ball trajectory was noticeably lower.   This may explain about 6 - 8 yards of the 15 yard difference.  So, one club length difference is easily explained by a loft manipulation by Callaway.

2) Shaft length - BB was 0.25 inch longer.   It probably added a yard or two at best.

The above two explain about 10+ yards gain.  It's no magic and it's no secret sauce.  It's what every golf equipment company seems to be doing for some time.  Anyway, the rest of Callaway claim (of 1 - 2 clubs longer) must come from somewhere else.

3) Ball seems to fly out of BB's club face.  I think this plus whatever the difference with shaft gave me the other 5 yards.  I consider this to be the actual gain of 5 yards on average.

Moved your post to this thread. Was talked about a lot in thread but I'll reiterate that there is more to distance than loft and length.

[Lihu]

[QUOTE name="rkim291968" url="/t/77828/tv-ad-said-that-callaway-irons-20-yd-longer/54#post_1080620"] The distance test resulted in BB going about 15 yards longer than mine on average.  That's almost two club lengths.  I did my own analysis on how. 1) The loft - BB's loft was about one club stronger than mine.  Accordingly, ball trajectory was noticeably lower.   This may explain about 6 - 8 yards of the 15 yard difference.  So, one club length difference is easily explained by a loft manipulation by Callaway.  2) Shaft length - BB was 0.25 inch longer.   It probably added a yard or two at best. The above two explain about 10+ yards gain.  It's no magic and it's no secret sauce.  It's what every golf equipment company seems to be doing for some time.  Anyway, the rest of Callaway claim (of 1 - 2 clubs longer) must come from somewhere else. 3) Ball seems to fly out of BB's club face.  I think this plus whatever the difference with shaft gave me the other 5 yards.  I consider this to be the actual gain of 5 yards on average.  [/QUOTE] Moved your post to this thread. Was talked about a lot in thread but I'll reiterate that there is more to distance than loft and length.

When I tested the BB 7i, I got the same performance as the RSI 7i. The clubs are super hot and long. I was joking with the salesman about a 200 yard 7i in the near future. My main issue with it is that to use the set where the PW hits as far as it does, you end up needing a set of 4 wedges. So, I end up purchasing this set and new wedges just so I can make a set like my current set of 8 clubs. There's no real advantage to me.