My Swing (FireDragon76)

[Phil McGleno]

He means everything is golf jargon because you are not talking with people in person and they are not going to take 5x the normal time it takes to write something to explain everything in non-golf terms.-That is why they use pictures and videos and stuff too-So you can see what the words mean and put them into your own jargon if you want.[quote name="FireDragon76" url="/t/77970/my-swing-firedragon76/18#post_1076411"] This isn't really true.  Mvmac did a great comparison of my swing with Moe Norman... so now I understand what you are all talking about.  But the issue isn't really with my shoulders, its with my whole upper body not being inclined relative to the ground on the backswing.  [/quote] I could teach a golf lesson without 'golf jargon' but asking others not to use words they use day in and day out and who are helping you for free is bad form on your part-You need to invest a little time like reading the Swing Thoughts forum i linked to above. Cant all be take take take take 'no jargon please' etc.

[Golfingdad]

If you want to say you dont know them from Adam thats fine but the millions of words of advice and tips and discussion theyve given out or shared for free or their videos or whatever are RIGHT HERE FOR YOU to look at if you want.-You might not know them from Adam but that is YOUR fault and YOUR choice and-IMO-YOUR mistake.

Bingo.

I didn't know these guys from Adam either when I joined this site (about 2 1/2 years ago).  But I LISTENED to what they had to say, realized that they knew their shit quite well (better than most), and then bought into it.  Hook, line and sinker.

And now I feel like an idiot because .... I went from a 10+ handicapper to a 5.4 (and still improving) in that time frame.

I probably would have been better off ignoring all of their stupid advice and just kept on jumping from fix to fix, stupid-ass swing method to stupid-ass swing method, and magazine tip to magazine tip.  Certainly I would've improved more that way, right??

[Hammer 4]

Bingo.

I didn't know these guys from Adam either when I joined this site (about 2 1/2 years ago).  But I LISTENED to what they had to say, realized that they knew their shit quite well (better than most), and then bought into it.  Hook, line and sinker.

And now I feel like an idiot because .... I went from a 10+ handicapper to a 5.4 (and still improving) in that time frame.

I probably would have been better off ignoring all of their stupid advice and just kept on jumping from fix to fix, stupid-ass swing method to stupid-ass swing method, and magazine tip to magazine tip.  Certainly I would've improved more that way, right??

I would also agree with Phil, and Golfdad..All this info for free, and it seems like you want to find some simple quick fix, not gonna happen. You need to put in the work, and do the drills. Heck, even the PGA pro do drills to keep their golf swing in check..This is a  great opportunity for you.

[mvmac]

Let's see if I can do this without golf jargon

The left shoulder needs to move more like the right pic, down towards the ground, rather than like the arrow in the left pic, level to the ground.

[Ernest Jones]

I didn't respond to EJ's post because I believed I had nothing constructive to say.  EJ's appeal to authority is illogical given the nature of the internet and the fact I don't know Mike and Erik from Adam.  Just because someone teaches professional golfers doesn't mean they necessarily have anything relevant to teach me.  In short if you want to convince me you are actually going to have to show me and get beyond the golf jargon.

@FireDragon76 , I'm sorry if I came off as harsh in my post. It was late, had a few drinks and let's face it, you can be a pretty frustrating individual.

Look, everyone in this thread is trying to help you. We all have different communication styles, some just lay it out black and white, some coddle a bit, some are Phil.

We're all telling you the SAME THING in different ways and the fact that every one of us is trying to give you the SAME message should tell you something. It's not like there's a ton of conflicting info here, we're saying it in different fashions but we all see the same thing with your swing that needs to be addressed first. This is called, in golf jargon, a priority piece. If you're having trouble with the lexicon we all use then we could translate "priority piece" into "the thing that is ****ing you up the most and preventing you from improving." You can try to improve all other aspects of the swing as much as you want BUT if that "priority piece" isn't fixed it won't matter and I'm not even sure you CAN fix anything else in your swing as long as you have this issue.

YOU NEED TO GO FROM THE LEFT IMAGE TO THE RIGHT IMAGE.

Look at Zach's head, the red dots trace his head at address, see how little movement there has been? Now look at your's.The reason is because Zach has turned on an inclined plane and you have...done something else. You need to fix this first. It's your PRIORITY. Until that happens NOTHING ELSE matters. Not the size of your grips, not quality of your golf ball and not the "method" you choose to subscribe to.

We have given you lot's of ways to work on this.

The driveway sticks with your head against the wall is a good one. I find the thought of trying to point my left shoulder AT the ball helped me get a feel for it. However you try to tackle this will better than ignoring it. Spend a couple days working on that proper turn without a club and take some video until you are getting into a reasonable position and then report back.

[FireDragon76]

[Ernest Jones]

I admire your dedication. Keep it up, but please try to work on what has been recommended. Film yourself doing some of the drills that have been provided so we can give you feedback on how and what you are working on.

Also, and this is pretty important if you want feedback on your videos, read this: http://thesandtrap.com/b/playing_tips/filming_your_swing

[FireDragon76]

I admire your dedication. Keep it up, but please try to work on what has been recommended. Film yourself doing some of the drills that have been provided so we can give you feedback on how and what you are working on.

Also, and this is pretty important if you want feedback on your videos, read this: http://thesandtrap.com/b/playing_tips/filming_your_swing

I did spend some time today trying to work on the shoulder rotations holding the golf club shaft and twisting over.  It's hard to do, I wonder if I have limited mobility there.  I felt like I could rotate maybe 30 degrees at most before my head started to lift up.

Watching the videos, I also notice that my swing overall looks weak and not very wide, like the club is too heavy or my shoulders and arms too weak to swing it.   It was an older steel club, so maybe that's part of it, or it could be there is something going on in my shoulders.

One thing I noticed during the practice and in the video is that I feel like I'm getting better at centering the weight between my feet and not swaying my upper body back as much.   Also, when I did hit the ball and it didn't shank or push, the flight path was straight.

I've been going to the gymn a few times a week trying to build up strength in my shoulders.  I've never put on muscle very well, even when I became a gymn bunny and I've tried all sorts of diets.   For the past few years I've not been in good health (first bad bladder infection, then small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, then fibromyalgia, finally got investigated for Celiac disease, results came back negative doctor diagnosed gluten intolerance).

Maybe I should be swinging with seniors or ladies clubs, given  all the physical problems I've delt with and the reality that I'm probably not all that strong.  I tried a seniors club once and it just seemed to spray balls around a bit too much when the contact felt solid.

[iacas]

I did spend some time today trying to work on the shoulder rotations holding the golf club shaft and twisting over.  It's hard to do, I wonder if I have limited mobility there.  I felt like I could rotate maybe 30 degrees at most before my head started to lift up.

You might consider that golf is not for you. If you cannot bend your spine 10 degrees the left while turning your hips on an angle, you're going to find it very difficult. For someone who self-reportedly lacks hand-eye coordination, you're only making it more difficult on yourself by moving your head all around. Think about it: you lack hand eye coordination and your current swing has you moving your eyes all over the place?

Now, here's the good news: I highly doubt that you can not do this. You'd be the first person unable to do this, and I've taught a guy over 90 and a few over 80 who can do this. They can't quite turn back 90° but they get over 60°, each of them.

Do what EJ said. Film yourself DOING THE DRILL the next time. Face on and down the line. Just do the drill. Hitting balls is not how you practice to improve at golf.

Watching the videos, I also notice that my swing overall looks weak and not very wide, like the club is too heavy or my shoulders and arms too weak to swing it.   It was an older steel club, so maybe that's part of it, or it could be there is something going on in my shoulders.

Unless you are the weakest male on the face of the planet (or darn near close to it), I'm going with "no" on that one. It's the mechanics of your swing that make it look weak.

Good luck. You've gotten good advice here and thus far chosen to ignore it. Here's to hoping that turns around.

[FireDragon76]

You might consider that golf is not for you. If you cannot bend your spine 10 degrees the left while turning your hips on an angle, you're going to find it very difficult. For someone who self-reportedly lacks hand-eye coordination, you're only making it more difficult on yourself by moving your head all around. Think about it: you lack hand eye coordination and your current swing has you moving your eyes all over the place?

Have you watched my recent swing video?  I haven't broken it down frame-by-frame, but I don't see a lot of head movement.

I did my own research and some of the greatest golfers in the world have noticeable head movement.  Lee Trevino and  Moe Norman often moved their heads downward during the downswing.  Ben Hogan's head moved backwards almost two inches during his backswing.

[Ernest Jones]

Sigh...

[Lihu]

Have you watched my recent swing video?  I haven't broken it down frame-by-frame, but I don't see a lot of head movement.

I did my own research and some of the greatest golfers in the world have noticeable head movement.  Lee Trevino and  Moe Norman often moved their heads downward during the downswing.  Ben Hogan's head moved backwards almost two inches during his backswing.

What you just wrote has nothing to do with what we are trying to suggest you fix. You need to turn your shoulders on a steeper angle as Erik and Mike have said.

Your swing is not even really a golf swing. The natural path of your swing will not put the club head anywhere close to the ground. If you bend at the hips 10-30 degrees (image the hands of a clock. you want your body to be at 5:07 to 5:10 o-clock, with your legs being the hour hand and your upper body in line with the minute hands. the hips are the pivot point)

[iacas]

Have you watched my recent swing video?  I haven't broken it down frame-by-frame, but I don't see a lot of head movement.

I did my own research and some of the greatest golfers in the world have noticeable head movement.  Lee Trevino and  Moe Norman often moved their heads downward during the downswing.  Ben Hogan's head moved backwards almost two inches during his backswing.

We've done our research too. Hundreds of PGA Tour players using equipment that actually measures these things, not just using your eyes and a camera… The average PGA Tour player moves his head less than one inch laterally on the backswing and downswing. That means for every player moving his head two inches, someone else is moving it zero. You never see a PGA Tour player working on moving his head around more.

The wording of Key #1 is " Steady Head" not completely unmoving head. If you'd read a few things about it, you'd see the largest allowance is vertically, as often good players will go down slightly during the downswing.

And even though Hogan is hitting a driver here (more allowance for moving since the ball is teed up), his head meets the definition of "relatively steady" here:

This article wasn't written solely for you, but your posts sped it along: . You need to be a Stupid Monkey. .

I'm good at what I do. So is Mike.

Good luck.

[Phil McGleno]

My god Erik why do you keep wasting your time?-Do you care that much about golfers getting better and enjoying golf? I dont know how you do it. Id be burned out by all you do and the grief you get for it. To those who want to say that Erik is a jerk I point to threads like this one where hes given all sorts of grief-disrespected-ignored, etc. and (stupidly :-D) keeps going forward trying to help. Maybe not anymore but he stuck it out longer than any sane person or someone who doesnt care much would Holy hell @FireDragon76 you are creeping into @KyleAnthony territory here man-What is up? YOU STILL WHIFF now and then do you not? P.S.-Mike too. Sorry @mvmac .

[FireDragon76]

Quote:

We've done our research too. Hundreds of PGA Tour players using equipment that actually measures these things, not just using your eyes and a camera… The average PGA Tour player moves his head less than one inch laterally on the backswing and downswing. That means for every player moving his head two inches, someone else is moving it zero. You never see a PGA Tour player working on moving his head around more.

I don't doubt "keep your head steady" is true as a generalization about a good golf swing.   But it's just that, a generalization.

I couldn't directly link to the pictures but this site has a lot of examples of Moe Norman and Gary Player moving their head backwards during a swing:

http://www.bradleyhughesgolf.com/index.php/instructions/swing-myths

Lihu said my swing wasn't even a golf swing.  Well, then there needs to be an explanation how the ball got from the ground to over 150 yards away without having a "golf swing".     I accepted when I started out that I probably would need to have a less-than-ideal golf swing- definitely not swinging like a pro.  I'm not in my 20's anymore, never been good at baseball, softball, or tennis, and I deal with chronic pain the majority of the days in the past few years.  So I accepted that realistically I'd need golf instruction and swing methods that would suit me as an individual.

[newtogolf]

I don't doubt "keep your head steady" is true as a generalization about a good golf swing.   But it's just that, a generalization.

I couldn't directly link to the pictures but this site has a lot of examples of Moe Norman and Gary Player moving their head backwards during a swing:

http://www.bradleyhughesgolf.com/index.php/instructions/swing-myths

Lihu said my swing wasn't even a golf swing.  Well, then there needs to be an explanation how the ball got from the ground to over 150 yards away without having a "golf swing".     I accepted when I started out that I probably would need to have a less-than-ideal golf swing- definitely not swinging like a pro.  I'm not in my 20's anymore, never been good at baseball, softball, or tennis, and I deal with chronic pain the majority of the days in the past few years.  So I accepted that realistically I'd need golf instruction and swing methods that would suit me as an individual.

Jim Furyk loops his club on his backswing to downswing.  Some golfers do unique things that fall outside the norm and are successful but that doesn't mean you should model your swing after them.  Why would you opt to model your swing after one or two people when every other pro follows the 5SK?   Practice your backswing in a mirror, focus on not moving your head throughout the entire backswing movement.  It isn't natural but it will become more natural if you practice.

I see kids that run up and Happy Gilmore the ball off a tee 200+ yards but what they are doing isn't a proper golf swing either.   You need to stop worrying about the results (where the ball goes) and worry about learning proper mechanics.  Phil, Erik, Mike are all pro instructors, they are giving you free advice and I guarantee that you will improve if you listen to them, so stop being defensive and try to follow their advice.

[FireDragon76]

Holy hell @FireDragon76 you are creeping into @KyleAnthony territory here man-What is up? YOU STILL WHIFF now and then do you not?

P.S.-Mike too. Sorry @mvmac.

Who is KyleAnthony?

Yeah, I still whiff, though it seems to be getting less and less.  A month ago I couldn't hit a ball off the ground most of the time, it had to be teed up.  I'm seeing progress, although it seems painfully slow.

My dad has been playing golf for decades and occasionally misses the ball altogether, although it's rare.

[14ledo81]

@FireDragon76 , if you have time, I suggest you take a look at a few of the other members swing threads.  Two in particular I can think of that (at times) had a lot of action are mine @14ledo81 and @Ernest Jones .

You can visually see the improvement made while listening to the "free" advice given by Mike and Erik.  The same type of advice being offered to you.