What makes a good golf store?

[Patch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil McGleno

Followers?

I am not a follower, but I agree that 90% of the stuff here is good instruction if not more.

It is demeaning to use the word followers like that.

I worked with Harvey Penick too. He was a nice guy, and he sold some books, but I could say that Harvey was the king of the band-aid and make a darn good case for it. Take Dead Aim never permanently fixed a bad golf swing.

The Harmons are all related too-It is not as if getting a lesson from one is the same as getting a lesson from Butch. If Hank Haney has a brother I would not just go see him for a lesson either-Then again I would not go see Hank for a lesson to begin with ha ha.

Perhaps instead of the put-downs you should engage with the instructors (me included) here on things they say. From what I have seen they do not mind a challenge-Might even enjoy it.

In fairness I think you misunderstood him a little.  I think when he said "The forum's resident pro, and his followers would write him off as being an idiot" he wasn't taking about THIS forum, he was talking about these websites: "So goofy in fact, he was run off some golf web sites."  His phrasing was a little strange but I think that' what he meant. I don't think he was putting down this site.

Thanks Turtleback, and you are correct. I was not referring to this site. In fact my visit with this gentleman took place in the mid 1980s, which I also posted in that same post. I have not been on this forum a full year as yet. No worries, as retorts like that are not a problem for me. I just post my opinions and move on.

[Pretzel]

I'm considering buying into an off-course golf shop. I don't expect to make a gazillion dollars, but I want to make a living....

What makes a shop successful?

What makes you pick one store over another?

What marketing methods get your attention?

Thanks in advance for your thoughtful replies - hit 'em straight!

To answer your questions in order:

1) Selling lots of stuff! To be more serious I would say that more successful golf stores are able to get more people into the store on any given day that ones that aren't successful. There's one specific building in my town that had three different golf shops and a couple other businesses flop because it faces away from the main road in a location that nobody can really see without taking a very specific path. Make sure that the shop is visible from a medium to high traffic road so that customers don't have to use a map application to find you.

2) I go to one store over another due to simulator access, friendly customer service, and how knowledgeable the fitters are. Just make sure the people who are fitting people into clubs and getting them to test things know what they're doing. I've had poor experiences where I went in with a list of irons I wanted to try and shafts that I knew were a poor fit for me through prior testing and the fitter tried to get me to purchase the shafts I didn't like because he happened to use them. I've also had great experiences where the fitter has gone above and beyond, showing me things that I wouldn't have thought to try on my own and really attempting to help me find the best thing for me.

One thing that, while not as large a money-maker, most golf shops don't carry and could set you apart is a variety of right hand gloves for lefties. Most stores only carry the really cheap/bad ones for the right hand, and I know my grandpa likes to go to a specific store that carries what he likes. The downfall to this is it isn't a high volume seller and takes up floor space, though you could at least get some customers in the door by having them.

Make sure the store has some sort of simulator to allow people to test clubs out. If you don't you'll lose out on a lot of sales because people like to know that it'll work better before purchasing it (I know I do). If you have the budget for a good one such as a GC2, Trackman, or Flightscope that's even better as you can use it as a selling point for your store on it's own.

I'd say the biggest piece is just people who are friendly, helpful, and don't appear to be pushing a customer to buy something. Just the availability to help you find something you're looking for is big.

3) You might, as an off-course shop, look into installing a couple bays with high speed cameras and V1 Golf or another video playback system and renting them out hourly for people looking to improve or practice during the winter/off-season. There's a single place within 50 miles of my house that does this and they usually have all three stalls full with prices of $10/hr with a $50/mo membership and $30/hr for non-members. The ability to also have a second simulator on which people could "play" golf on (for you to rent out) would be a boon since it would allow you to either fit two people at once or rent one of them out at a time for more money.

[1badbadger]

3) You might, as an off-course shop, look into installing a couple bays with high speed cameras and V1 Golf or another video playback system and renting them out hourly for people looking to improve or practice during the winter/off-season. There's a single place within 50 miles of my house that does this and they usually have all three stalls full with prices of $10/hr with a $50/mo membership and $30/hr for non-members. The ability to also have a second simulator on which people could "play" golf on (for you to rent out) would be a boon since it would allow you to either fit two people at once or rent one of them out at a time for more money.

This is actually a really good idea if you have enough space to do it.  It's something that you can offer that a consumer cannot get off the internet (something I feel is key), and it will help drive customers to the store more often, and more than likely customers might pick up a few items while they are there like a glove or a bag of tees or whatever.  The monthly membership is a great idea, or if someone doesn't want to commit to that you could have a "punch card" that would earn them a free hour after 10 paid hours or something like that.  You could even do long drive contests or a little tournament in the winter with certain simulators...there are a lot of possibilities.  My feeling on hitting bays whether they have a launch monitor or a simulator or whatever you intend to use them for is this...do it right or don't do it at all. Don't cut corners or try to save money with cheaper materials or squeeze it in where there isn't enough room etc.  Hitting bays take a beating and cheap construction and materials will not hold up, and hitting cages that look rode hard and put up wet will be an eyesore that won't get used.

[turtleback]

To answer your questions in order:

1) Selling lots of stuff!  To be more serious I would say that more successful golf stores are able to get more people into the store on any given day that ones that aren't successful. There's one specific building in my town that had three different golf shops and a couple other businesses flop because it faces away from the main road in a location that nobody can really see without taking a very specific path. Make sure that the shop is visible from a medium to high traffic road so that customers don't have to use a map application to find you.

2) I go to one store over another due to simulator access, friendly customer service, and how knowledgeable the fitters are. Just make sure the people who are fitting people into clubs and getting them to test things know what they're doing. I've had poor experiences where I went in with a list of irons I wanted to try and shafts that I knew were a poor fit for me through prior testing and the fitter tried to get me to purchase the shafts I didn't like because he happened to use them. I've also had great experiences where the fitter has gone above and beyond, showing me things that I wouldn't have thought to try on my own and really attempting to help me find the best thing for me.

One thing that, while not as large a money-maker, most golf shops don't carry and could set you apart is a variety of right hand gloves for lefties. Most stores only carry the really cheap/bad ones for the right hand, and I know my grandpa likes to go to a specific store that carries what he likes. The downfall to this is it isn't a high volume seller and takes up floor space, though you could at least get some customers in the door by having them.

Make sure the store has some sort of simulator to allow people to test clubs out. If you don't you'll lose out on a lot of sales because people like to know that it'll work better before purchasing it (I know I do). If you have the budget for a good one such as a GC2, Trackman, or Flightscope that's even better as you can use it as a selling point for your store on it's own.

I'd say the biggest piece is just people who are friendly, helpful, and don't appear to be pushing a customer to buy something. Just the availability to help you find something you're looking for is big.

3) You might, as an off-course shop, look into installing a couple bays with high speed cameras and V1 Golf or another video playback system and renting them out hourly for people looking to improve or practice during the winter/off-season. There's a single place within 50 miles of my house that does this and they usually have all three stalls full with prices of $10/hr with a $50/mo membership and $30/hr for non-members. The ability to also have a second simulator on which people could "play" golf on (for you to rent out) would be a boon since it would allow you to either fit two people at once or rent one of them out at a time for more money.

These are great ideas but also are expensive in terms both of space and acquisition cost.

The real question for the OP, for which I have no answer, is how do you get people to buy from you rather than over the internet.  We've seen here in various threads how many people will use a golf shop to figure out what they want and then buy it on the internet.  I think this is really the retail question of today, not just for golf.  How do you get paid for providing something the internet cannot provide, namely service.

Personally I would never invest in any kind of retail business unless I had a damn good answer to the question.

[irishmike27]

A golf store where I shop sells annual memberships which gives you access to discounted pricing.

[trickyputt]

I go because of the people there. The inventory is available everywhere because wall street thinks that is a good idea, so itz real easy to run across a salesman who is not only uncaring but also clueless as a result. I have had to show them how to use their own putter benders for example.

[Tooz]

Wow - you guys are awesome - I really appreciate that you took the time to offer your honest opinions, as that is exactly what I need!

I like the idea of the indoor range and memberships - I used one in Toledo years ago - but it wouldn't work well in Florida, as the winter is our busy season... but it's got me thinking... in the heat of the summer (our slow season) or dark of night (dark at 5pm in winter), how about a weekly "evening event" - driving and putting contests/seminars/lessons... That might be fun, one night a week...

The internet is a huge competitor on price - this was mentioned a couple times - I wonder if a price-match would work, if I could match prices without losing money. It would get customers in the store and perhaps they'd pick up a few more things while they are there...

The idea is coming together and it looks more like we may take the plunge than it did a couple weeks ago. The partners are excited and convinced it would work, although I'm not totally there yet. My main concern now is the investment, which will be a huge chunk of my retirement, so I'm naturally nervous about that. I'd like to get some outside financing or investors, but that adds to the monthly minimums and puts more pressure on making the sales and cash flow.

Again - thanks to all who contributed your time and opinions - I appreciate it more than you know! Hit 'em straight!

[Aflighter]

I dont think its as much of what you do as much as its what do you have to offer.Personally for me i like to go in a store looking at the used clubs section or use the indoor putting green or if they have a hitting bay try clubs out on it.In this day and time alot of people like buying pre owned clubs they can afford that are in dec ent shape so they dont pay 300 for a driver or 80-100 bucks per new iron.If you can get a supply of used clubs on regular basis name brand especially and a putting green and few hitting bays for people to try clubs then your well on your way.Location will be important too plus advertising.I loved EDWIN WATTS near me because i could go in and see all the pre owned clubs they sold and try out putters on their green and hit in their bays.It would be costly but some flight monitors in them would help even if you only had one.Also your knowledge of golf you could sell lessons kinda like a golf doctor selling advice to the common golfer.

[caniac6]

Made a 40 minute drive from Winston-Salem to Greensboro to go Golf USA only to find it was closed. As far as I know, it was the last small golf shop in the area that had a decent selection. There are some smaller shops, but they specialize in repairs and custom clubs. All we have now is golf galaxy,Dick's, and Golfsmith. I feel like those stores employ retail sales people, and the smaller stores had real "golf" people. I really miss the small local golf shop, but they seem to be a thing of the past. At least around here.

[turtleback]

The internet is a huge competitor on price - this was mentioned a couple times - I wonder if a price-match would work, if I could match prices without losing money. It would get customers in the store and perhaps they'd pick up a few more things while they are there...

I think that is a lot harder than it sounds.  If you offer it for their price, when you are paying all the costs of a brick and mortar store, then it is going to be very hard to not lose money.

The other problem with price matching is when someone comes to you with a website with new name brand clubs at low prices.  How are you going to check to see if these are real clubs and not knock-offs.  That is a pretty common issue in the internet sales area and while I don't think you can afford to price match on real stuff at internet prices, I KNOW you cannot afford to price match for real equipment what some internet site is charging for counterfeits.  So that is something else you will need to figure out.jy c

[1badbadger]

I go because of the people there. The inventory is available everywhere because wall street thinks that is a good idea, so itz real easy to run across a salesman who is not only uncaring but also clueless as a result. I have had to show them how to use their own putter benders for example.

That's why I used to love going into the little local shops that sold used equipment...you never knew what you might find.  You had to dig through a big barrel of putters or a stack of iron sets in the corner that were bundled together with zip ties...THAT to me was fun. Shops had character.

Unfortunately, the trend in retail is that salespeople are disposable and high turnover is expected, so wages are low which creates a a young and/or inexperienced base, and they don't spend much time or money to train them because they don't want to invest in short-term employees!  Edwin Watts was one of the only big box chains that didn't follow this trend...they had longtime, experienced sales people who had been with the company for 10-20 years or more and were knowledgeable.  The owner of a small shop needs at least one guy who is a stud that has a deep knowledge of equipment and who can build relationships with customers.  And for God's sake, keep the newbies away from the loft/lie machines!

[trickyputt]

Wow - you guys are awesome - I really appreciate that you took the time to offer your honest opinions, as that is exactly what I need! I like the idea of the indoor range and memberships - I used one in Toledo years ago - but it wouldn't work well in Florida, as the winter is our busy season... but it's got me thinking... in the heat of the summer (our slow season) or dark of night (dark at 5pm in winter), how about a weekly "evening event" - driving and putting contests/seminars/lessons... That might be fun, one night a week... The internet is a huge competitor on price - this was mentioned a couple times - I wonder if a price-match would work, if I could match prices without losing money. It would get customers in the store and perhaps they'd pick up a few more things while they are there... The idea is coming together and it looks more like we may take the plunge than it did a couple weeks ago. The partners are excited and convinced it would work, although I'm not totally there yet. My main concern now is the investment, which will be a huge chunk of my retirement, so I'm naturally nervous about that. I'd like to get some outside financing or investors, but that adds to the monthly minimums and puts more pressure on making the sales and cash flow. Again - thanks to all who contributed your time and opinions - I appreciate it more than you know! Hit 'em straight!

I think it would be a huge mistake to have the concept of one store when the reality is that you will have two, and they will actually work together, co-operatively. One store will be a warehouse, larger space but closed to the retail walk in traffic. It will be pure internet sales. The other will be the retail store with the best products for those that need human care. Its a model that works, and I have seen several function through the Great Recession. They have to stay seperate, as they have different cost structures, and you couldnt blend the carrying cost from one to the other without destroying your books. Or creating conditions where you actually create downward price pressure on the service offered by a retail store that has to be supported by the higher price of custom clubs. Its an interesting bifurcation.

[Seniorhacker]

I'm sure this has been tried but how about an area in the store (in the indoor practice range area) where you have simulators with popular resort courses downloaded where guys could call for tee times to play during the winter? I know this would eat up space but as far as time, a foursome could probably play 18 holes in an hour or so. In the colder climates it looks like this could be a viable option where guys could continue to play when it was really bad outside. You would need to set your cost so that it would be profitable. I know if I had this option available to our group we would probably love doing it, of course there would have to be beer sales available too.

[Aflighter]

I think it would be a huge mistake to have the concept of one store when the reality is that you will have two, and they will actually work together, co-operatively. One store will be a warehouse, larger space but closed to the retail walk in traffic. It will be pure internet sales. The other will be the retail store with the best products for those that need human care. Its a model that works, and I have seen several function through the Great Recession. They have to stay seperate, as they have different cost structures, and you couldnt blend the carrying cost from one to the other without destroying your books. Or creating conditions where you actually create downward price pressure on the service offered by a retail store that has to be supported by the higher price of custom clubs. Its an interesting bifurcation.

Yeah i overheard the guy running a small golf store near me saying their sales been down but their internet sales are way up.

[trickyputt]

The tax structure is important too. This may help. 1 is good or non existent. 50 is scary.

[Tooz]

Senior - I played those in Toledo, years ago. It was great fun, especially when it was cold. I don't know if there would be the same draw in Florida...

[newtogolf]

Yeah i overheard the guy running a small golf store near me saying their sales been down but their internet sales are way up.

Golf sales in North East get really slow in January and February.  Things start to pick up in March, but it's tough until May when all the snow birds come home.

[Divotmaker77]

OP, lots of good thoughts already.  I live in the south so Golf is more of a year round thing and even the smaller stores here have struggled.  Locally, there is a store I have bought most of my clubs from. The main reason was because I felt the employees knew what they were talking about and were good with the fitting process.  No range or anything but a hitting simulator area to fit clubs with. etc.  If I went to Dicks, they usually had someone who acted like they did not want to be there, had no real idea on the fitting process, and was only interested in looking busy since sales were slow and they needed something to do.

Back to the store I would go to, I started to notice in the past year that when I went in there employees would not go out of their way to introduce themselves to me, seemed to sit behind the counter, if I asked them about the products they did not seem to have a lot of knowledge, etc. I ended up getting fit for a new set of irons by the owner of the store who seemed to only be interested in making the sale instead of really talking to me about the different brands, etc.  It was a deal of what do you want, let me fit you, take your money, and on to the next.  In the past someone would walk me around the selections talking about different brands, etc and then do a fitting.

A new Golfsmith store came into town last year and it is nice.  I went in a few weeks ago just to kill some time and I noticed some of the employees at the other store were working there now. These were the better ones that I used to talk to when I got good service from the other store. I asked them why they left and it came down to getting paid more, the other store was really struggling to keep up with Golfsmith and others now, owner was very stressed out, and had created a moral problem around the store.

I got good service at Golfsmith, they had a huge selection of products, several simulator hitting areas, and they have a good fitting system in place.  More than likely, my next big purchase will be there.  Not always the case with those large retailer chains, but this particular one seems to be sold so far.

I am the type that wants the small business to succeed but it comes down to better price, service, product selection, etc.  I am willing to pay a little more if I am getting great service, but when the service level goes down then I am going to where service is the same or maybe a bit better, but prices are lower.

JMO, buying into anything golf related right now is a huge risk.  Not something I would get involved in.  The industry is struggling and unless you are in an area with minimal competition and a good customer base that plays golf its going to be a tough road ahead for you.