2015 NFL Football Thread

[Golfingdad]

5 hours ago, boogielicious said:

We could talk about the strong arm extortion of the fans in San Diego, Oakland and St Louis that Roger "Baby Face" Goodell is imposing so that his Billionaire Owners don't have to pay for their own stadiums. It's a real hardship for them. Look what happened when Robert Kraft had to pay for his own stadium! It set the franchise back decades in profits and performance. Oh wait.

http://www.nfl.com/photoessays/0ap3000000530683

 

Well, it sucks for St. Louis, but the bright side with the Rams is that they actually ARE paying own stadium here in LA.

[dak4n6]

I hate the NFL. And the franchises. And how the players and coaches have become.

I love the game though.

[jamo]

14 minutes ago, dak4n6 said:

I hate the NFL. And the franchises. And how the players and coaches have become.

I love the game though.

Why do you hate the franchises?

[dak4n6]

2 minutes ago, jamo said:

Why do you hate the franchises?

They don't care about their fans. They care only about $$$. Only. Oh, sorry, they also care about marketing, and branding, and merchandising, and leverage, and marketing, and sales, and PR, and media image, and did I mention marketing? Where are the fans in all this?

[saevel25]

7 hours ago, dak4n6 said:

They don't care about their fans. They care only about $$$. Only. Oh, sorry, they also care about marketing, and branding, and merchandising, and leverage, and marketing, and sales, and PR, and media image, and did I mention marketing? Where are the fans in all this?

yet the fans must enjoy all that because they like to associate with the branding. they like to buy all the clothes. They buy tickets to go to the game. 

What else do you want? You are paying them to do all this. You keep paying them to do this buy watching their games. How else would they appreciate the fans more? I don't get it. 

 

[Shindig]

Just now, dak4n6 said:

They don't care about their fans. They care only about $$$. Only. Oh, sorry, they also care about marketing, and branding, and merchandising, and leverage, and marketing, and sales, and PR, and media image, and did I mention marketing? Where are the fans in all this?

You're aware professional sports is a business, right?  They care about the fans ... because that's who buys the tickets, watches the games on television, and buys branded merchandise. 

Of course, it's somewhat complicated by the fact that buying non-Cowboys stuff supports the other teams too.

[dak4n6]

16 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

yet the fans must enjoy all that because they like to associate with the branding. they like to buy all the cloths. They buy tickets to go to the game. 

What else do you want? You are paying them to do all this. You keep paying them to do this buy watching their games. How else would they appreciate the fans more? I don't get it. 

 

For many years my stepson and I would go see Big Blue when they come to play the Beagles. It was a ritual. The prices (for everything - tickets, parking, food, etc) kept going up every year. Then, 2, maybe 3 years ago, I was looking for tickets (and not last minute), and the lowest price I could find was $280 ea for SRO. S. R. O. I can't afford to spend $800 for 3 hrs of entertainment. My son and I could just about go to Florida for a week for that money. WTF?

As for branding, I looked into getting a jersey - $200. For a shirt? Seriously?

I am not paying them to do all this. I am divesting myself from the NFL. I have purchased the NHL package the last two winters and by next year I plan to be free and clean from the nasty NFL The way they would appreciate the fans more is by not being all about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. Get it?

[dak4n6]

17 minutes ago, Shindig said:

You're aware professional sports is a business, right?  They care about the fans ... because that's who buys the tickets, watches the games on television, and buys branded merchandise. 

Of course, it's somewhat complicated by the fact that buying non-Cowboys stuff supports the other teams too.

No, they do not care about the fans. I will reiterate, they DO NOT care about the fans. Does a crack dealer 'care' about his customers? They know that they have a product which, if presented, marketed, and proliferated in the right way is almost like a drug. I concur it is a great game. And they know it, and will extract every last dollar bill from your pocket using the right tactics. C'mon, at what point will we all agree that ticket prices are ridiculous for a regular season game? $200? $400? $800? $1200? $2000? Stop me at some point here.....I can keep going...at some point we have to agree it's ridiculous. Well, I personally have reached that point.

[saevel25]

4 minutes ago, dak4n6 said:

No, they do not care about the fans. I will reiterate, they DO NOT care about the fans. Does a crack dealer 'care' about his customers? They know that they have a product which, if presented, marketed, and proliferated in the right way is almost like a drug. 

That's BS. It's not even close to a drug. People can stop watching football if they want.
 

5 minutes ago, dak4n6 said:

And they know it, and will extract every last dollar bill from your pocket using the right tactics. C'mon, at what point will we all agree that ticket prices are ridiculous for a regular season game? $200? $400? $800? $1200? $2000? Stop me at some point here.....I can keep going...at some point we have to agree it's ridiculous. Well, I personally have reached that point.

When  supply equals demand. As long as their people willing to pay the price then the price will go up. If they keep raising prices and if attendance still stays in the 90%+ range than why lower it? I guess if you want the argument, well most fans can't afford it. Well clearly 60K+ fans can afford it because they do. 

Also you have to realize that a lot of those tickets are resell from season ticket holders. So there is an upcharge there. I can get in a lottery for OSU football tickets at anywhere from $95 to $175 a piece, depending on the game. If I want to go to a game during the season I am looking at 1.5-2x the base ticket price. That is because the tickets are sold out and the only tickets you get are from either scalpers or people reselling online. 

 

[dak4n6]

1 minute ago, saevel25 said:

That's BS. It's not even close to a drug. People can stop watching football if they want.

 People can also stop doing heroin if they want. I am stopping, and believe me, it's not easy.

 

2 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

When  supply equals demand. As long as their people willing to pay the price then the price will go up. If they keep raising prices and if attendance still stays in the 90%+ range than why lower it? I guess if you want the argument, well most fans can't afford it. Well clearly 60K+ fans can afford it because they do. 

Also you have to realize that a lot of those tickets are resell from season ticket holders. So there is an upcharge there. I can get in a lottery for OSU football tickets at anywhere from $95 to $175 a piece, depending on the game. If I want to go to a game during the season I am looking at 1.5-2x the base ticket price. That is because the tickets are sold out and the only tickets you get are from either scalpers or people reselling online.

Yeah yeah, of course supply and demand drives prices, and online prices include a markup. Duh. I have always got tickets online. Just 2 or 3 yrs ago it got ridiculous. And that is the drug factor. The NFL and the franchises know that they have us by the short hairs, because their product is that good. I will admit it. You say that 60+K fans can afford the tickets? Maybe. How many of them are really not that wealthy? It must be nice to afford thousands of dollars to watch football and not even feel it. A crack addict justifies their purchases by forgoing food. Sure, I could have afforded $560 for standing room only tickets, but depleting my checking account to stand for 4 hrs in the cold to me has crossed the line of what is sensible.

[Shindig]

33 minutes ago, dak4n6 said:

No, they do not care about the fans. I will reiterate, they DO NOT care about the fans. Does a crack dealer 'care' about his customers? They know that they have a product which, if presented, marketed, and proliferated in the right way is almost like a drug. I concur it is a great game. And they know it, and will extract every last dollar bill from your pocket using the right tactics. C'mon, at what point will we all agree that ticket prices are ridiculous for a regular season game? $200? $400? $800? $1200? $2000? Stop me at some point here.....I can keep going...at some point we have to agree it's ridiculous. Well, I personally have reached that point.

As for the crack comparison:  football kills the players, not the fans.  So that's one difference.

I'll agree prices are ridiculous when people stop paying them.  Incidentally, so will the sellers.  $200 for a ticket is more than I'd be willing to pay to attend an NFL game.  It turns out that, in a free society, individuals are welcome to value things differently, and as long as the NFL can sell enough tickets at $200 that it isn't worth it to them to offer me a ticket at a lower price, that's fine.  I also think spending more on a car than a brand-new Honda Civic would cost is ridiculous, and yet, Maserati and Ferrari continue to exist.  As far as I'm concerned, your attitude of being entitled to attend a football game doesn't create an obligation on their part.  Porsche isn't obligated to offer me a car in my price range, and as far as I'm concerned, that's a good thing.

Meanwhile, I've attended four pro games (total, not each year) in the past few seasons, never spending more than $50 per seat (although in one case I also had to pay for a hotel, as I drove out to Phoenix for an extended weekend that included going to a game.  The other games were in southern California and I was able to make a single day trip out of going).  Got a great view of the field too -- didn't even have to resort to nosebleed seats.  There were some great halftime shows  -- one of them had Steel Panther.  I'll probably attend a game or two in 2016.  You're welcome to watch at home, or not at all, at your discretion and using whatever internal heuristics to decide you want to use.

[dak4n6]

19 minutes ago, Shindig said:

As for the crack comparison:  football kills the players, not the fans.  So that's one difference.

I'll agree prices are ridiculous when people stop paying them.  Incidentally, so will the sellers.  $200 for a ticket is more than I'd be willing to pay to attend an NFL game.  It turns out that, in a free society, individuals are welcome to value things differently, and as long as the NFL can sell enough tickets at $200 that it isn't worth it to them to offer me a ticket at a lower price, that's fine.  I also think spending more on a car than a brand-new Honda Civic would cost is ridiculous, and yet, Maserati and Ferrari continue to exist.  As far as I'm concerned, your attitude of being entitled to attend a football game doesn't create an obligation on their part.  Porsche isn't obligated to offer me a car in my price range, and as far as I'm concerned, that's a good thing.

Meanwhile, I've attended four pro games (total, not each year) in the past few seasons, never spending more than $50 per seat (although in one case I also had to pay for a hotel, as I drove out to Phoenix for an extended weekend that included going to a game.  The other games were in southern California and I was able to make a single day trip out of going).  Got a great view of the field too -- didn't even have to resort to nosebleed seats.  There were some great halftime shows  -- one of them had Steel Panther.  I'll probably attend a game or two in 2016.  You're welcome to watch at home, or not at all, at your discretion and using whatever internal heuristics to decide you want to use.

Wait, I'm not talking about the drug (football) killing anyone, just that it is addicting, and people will pay anything to buy it. That's all.

The Maseratti analogy might actually be appropriate in that poor people could be spending beyond their means just to watch and participate (re: marketing and branding) in NFL football. Read: poor Pleasantville kids wearing half their household net worth on their backs in the form of a Cam Newton jersey. I am not rich, but if Maseratti were plastered all over TV, radio, and print media, I might just convince myself that I have to buy one, but luckily for us, Maseratti doesn't do that.

If you can attend an NFL game for $50, please let me know and I will fly out to see the game and still pay less than watching a Giants/Eagles game here.

Thanks much for giving me permission to watch or not watch heuristically. I appreciate it. I think I will still divest myself heuristically (did I use that word OK? - not sure) of football. Too many thugs, too many billionairs, too much abuse of the fan base. It's my decision. Heuristically, of course. 

[Fourputt]

10 hours ago, dak4n6 said:

Wait, I'm not talking about the drug (football) killing anyone, just that it is addicting, and people will pay anything to buy it. That's all.

The Maseratti analogy might actually be appropriate in that poor people could be spending beyond their means just to watch and participate (re: marketing and branding) in NFL football. Read: poor Pleasantville kids wearing half their household net worth on their backs in the form of a Cam Newton jersey. I am not rich, but if Maseratti were plastered all over TV, radio, and print media, I might just convince myself that I have to buy one, but luckily for us, Maseratti doesn't do that.

If you can attend an NFL game for $50, please let me know and I will fly out to see the game and still pay less than watching a Giants/Eagles game here.

Thanks much for giving me permission to watch or not watch heuristically. I appreciate it. I think I will still divest myself heuristically (did I use that word OK? - not sure) of football. Too many thugs, too many billionairs, too much abuse of the fan base. It's my decision. Heuristically, of course. 

You don't acknowledge the one factor that is the real key to NFL game prices, and that's the fact that they only play a fraction of the number of games that the other major sports play, but they still have similar salary structures (in fact, the NFL has a larger roster of players than any of the other major sports).  Economics 101 says that means that the per unit price goes up.  

NFL teams have 8 regular season home games  each year.  MLB teams have 81.  NBA and NHL about 40.  Do the math for a season ticket, and then tell me where the fans are being gouged.

[Shindig]

11 hours ago, dak4n6 said:

Wait, I'm not talking about the drug (football) killing anyone, just that it is addicting, and people will pay anything to buy it, that's all.

If you can attend an NFL game for $50, please let me know and I will fly out to see the game and still pay less than watching a Giants/Eagles game here.

However, I think I will still divest myself heuristically (did I use that word OK? - not sure) of football. Too many thugs, too many billionairs, too much abuse of the fan base. It's my decision.

Who said NFL?  I said pro game.  I was very careful in my phrasing.  If you want to divest yourself of the NFL, and still watch a great football game, get into the AFL.  You mentioned your Eagles above?  Go to a Philly Soul game this spring or summer.

The AFL is a great value and is almost as good a product.  Plus it's during months that the NFL isn't an option anyway. 

[newtogolf]

14 hours ago, dak4n6 said:

No, they do not care about the fans. I will reiterate, they DO NOT care about the fans. Does a crack dealer 'care' about his customers? They know that they have a product which, if presented, marketed, and proliferated in the right way is almost like a drug. I concur it is a great game. And they know it, and will extract every last dollar bill from your pocket using the right tactics. C'mon, at what point will we all agree that ticket prices are ridiculous for a regular season game? $200? $400? $800? $1200? $2000? Stop me at some point here.....I can keep going...at some point we have to agree it's ridiculous. Well, I personally have reached that point.

It's a business, businesses exist to make money for their owners and shareholders.  In order for businesses to maximize their revenues they must appeal to their customers and in this case fans.  If games are sold out at their current pricing then the owners and employees are doing their job well.

You may be a great fan and I'm sure they appreciate the support you offer to the team but if you're not going to their stadium and spending money on their products you're not helping them financially as a business.  Pricing is dictated by supply and demand, if a team can sell out at their current pricing, it makes no sense to lower the price, in fact if the demand is that great, it would make good business sense to raise the price.  Remember, unlike baseball, football only has 8 home games in the regular season, so the supply is very limited.

When I owned my previous business we purchased season tickets for the Jets, face value per ticket was around $200.  $200 is not cheap but given there's only 8 opportunities in the regular season to go to see a game, it's not that over priced compared to hockey and basketball which have over 40 home games per season.

I chose to not retain the season tickets not because of price but because I'd rather watch football on my 80" HD LCD at home and avoid all the traffic, parking issues and drunken fans.

[dak4n6]

7 hours ago, Shindig said:

Who said NFL?  I said pro game.  I was very careful in my phrasing.  If you want to divest yourself of the NFL, and still watch a great football game, get into the AFL.  You mentioned your Eagles above?  Go to a Philly Soul game this spring or summer.

The AFL is a great value and is almost as good a product.  Plus it's during months that the NFL isn't an option anyway. 

My Eagles?!?! Nooooo! It burns! It burns! I'm born and raised in NY! I have to go wash my brain out....

[dak4n6]

Look everyone, good replies, and valid points. I realize football is a business, and I like the point that there are only 16 games each season, therefore they have to make more money per game.

But, for many years we have bought tickets at somewhat reasonable prices (I remember like ~$120 ea); heck, we attended the Giants NFC playoff game vs the Seagles only about 15 rows back from the 40 yd line for $350 ea in 2009. Then, prices reached the level where I said no.  My point is, the cost keeps going up and up and up as demand grows and grows due to a brilliant and insidious marketing campaign. (It's reached the point where women are now football fans!)

Also, the thugery (which definitely has a positive correlation to $$) is getting just stupid. Drugs, violence, weapons, I'm tired of it.

I want to watch other sports. There's plenty available. Go Rangers!

That's all I got. Please return this thread to Manning v. Newton....I would like to see Peyton win one last one,,,

[newtogolf]

4 hours ago, dak4n6 said:

Look everyone, good replies, and valid points. I realize football is a business, and I like the point that there are only 16 games each season, therefore they have to make more money per game.

But, for many years we have bought tickets at somewhat reasonable prices (I remember like ~$120 ea); heck, we attended the Giants NFC playoff game vs the Seagles only about 15 rows back from the 40 yd line for $350 ea in 2009. Then, prices reached the level where I said no.  My point is, the cost keeps going up and up and up as demand grows and grows due to a brilliant and insidious marketing campaign. (It's reached the point where women are now football fans!)

Also, the thugery (which definitely has a positive correlation to $$) is getting just stupid. Drugs, violence, weapons, I'm tired of it.

I want to watch other sports. There's plenty available. Go Rangers!

That's all I got. Please return this thread to Manning v. Newton....I would like to see Peyton win one last one,,,

The prices also go up because the salaries of players goes up every year as per the negotiated contract.  I don't think your wrong for feeling how you do so please don't take it as a criticism, I was just explaining some of the reasons for what appears to be excessive ticket prices.

I will be happy for Peyton or Newton.  I think Cam is great for the league and I hope he goes on to have a HOF career.  As for Peyton, I'd like to see him go out winning the Super Bowl and being MVP but if he doesn't he's still had an amazing career.