2015 Masters Discussion Thread

[Ferguson]

I could not be more tired of hearing this on here. I far from hate Tiger, praise his game (in his prime) quite frequently, and am very glad to see him back playing. I just said his short game was miles ahead of Rory's and I routinely say that his best was better than anyone else to play the game. I simply said I think Rory at his best is a slightly better ball striker than Tiger was. Not anywhere close to a hateful statement nor anywhere close to saying that Rory is or will be better than Tiger. As for recency bias, perhaps. I was wowed when I first saw Tiger swing. I feel similarly when I see Rory swing now.

It is pretty evident you don’t care for Tiger (in his prime or otherwise) for whatever reason. Why not just admit it? Rory is a player trying to achieve greatness. So often when we like a guy for whatever reason, we overlook his deficiencies. Rory a better ball-striker? At times he is a superior ball striker. Other times he is not. Better than Tiger? Who cares….Tiger embodied the whole package, and did what most of the modern players aspire to achieve. LOTS AND LOTS OF WINS. Go Tiger.

[isukgolf]

Nice travel garment bag. [URL=http://thesandtrap.com/content/type/61/id/117610/] [/URL]

Forget the garment bag ... I want the plane!

[Rick Martin]

http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-tours-news/golf-masters/2010-04/how-tough-augusta-knuth

Augusta plays about a 78 Rating, with a 136 Slope at 7400 yards.

It is a tough course, but not the toughest course played by PGA Tour players and not the toughest played by Amateurs. Heck TPC Sawgrass is 76.8 with a 155 slope at 7200 yards.

I posted that it was hard to get on the course to play. If you know a member, you have an opportunity. My former boss who has only played maybe three rounds his entire life was invited because his Citadel roommate's father knew a member and was a guest.

I always get a kick out of people who say when they visit Augusta on non-Masters' week they're going to go buy stuff from the pro shop......not knowing that Augusta National is protected like Ft Knox. When you drive around the perimeter you can't see anything.  If you're walking on Augusta Country Club, you can kind of see an adjacent fairway on Augusta National. It's that protected (security).

https://www.google.com/maps/search/augusta+georgia+country+club/@33.4954931,-82.0207528,591m/data=!3m1!1e3

[skydog]

If you're not a hater (I'd tend to agree)

I don't have a rosey outlook for Tiger's future but that doesn't detract from what he's accomplished or make me a hater. I would challenge you to find one truly disparaging thing I've said about Tiger. I hope I'm wrong about his future, I would love to see him make a comeback as I find myself actually rooting for him now for the first time in my life. I was never drawn to him before, but I've never disliked or hated him. I speak my mind on everything else here, I would gladly admit if I hated Tiger.

I think maybe you might forget how good Tiger was.

Like I said, that's possible. But I did say how wowed I was when I first saw Tiger swing. I very much remember that.

Plus, "at their best" is a bit of a throw-away, because Tiger, when not in the middle of a swing change, was at or near his best almost all the time. His down weeks would be his A- game. Rory's down weeks have him +4 through six holes.

Tiger's consistency, when #1 in particular, pushes him over the edge for me in terms of "who is a better ball-striker."

No doubt Tiger was more consistent than Rory (or maybe anyone else) will ever be.  I put this more in the mental toughness camp rather than the ball striking camp but that's just a differecne of perception/opinion. Tiger was the mentally strongest player to ever play the game while Rory, despite his huge talent, can be a good bit weaker between the ears IMO and this drives his inconsistency. Either way, I agree that both fall pretty close together on the ball striking scale.

[Golfingdad]

https://www.google.com/maps/search/augusta+georgia+country+club/@33.4954931,-82.0207528,591m/data=!3m1!1e3

Are those houses in the trees between the 11th, 13th and 14th holes?  Also, between the 8th and 18th fairways.

Being able to clearly see these structures on google maps, as well as the road(s) that cut right through the middle of the course leading to them, remind me how well they isolate themselves on TV from anything except the beauty of the course itself.  They never show any pictures that let you see where they are in the world, including no crane or blimp shots that are so prevalent at all other tournaments, and they hide those maintenance roads, or whatever they are, really well too.

[skydog]

Are those houses in the trees between the 11th, 13th and 14th holes?  Also, between the 8th and 18th fairways.

No those are the large concession huts and restrooms

[iacas]

I don't have a rosey outlook for Tiger's future but that doesn't detract from what he's accomplished or make me a hater.

Good. Then let's stop talking about it, okay?

Like I said, that's possible. But I did say how wowed I was when I first saw Tiger swing. I very much remember that.

Fair enough. You can admit it's possible. That was all I was suggesting.

No doubt Tiger was more consistent than Rory (or maybe anyone else) will ever be.  I put this more in the mental toughness camp rather than the ball striking camp but that's just a differecne of perception/opinion. Tiger was the mentally strongest player to ever play the game while Rory, despite his huge talent, can be a good bit weaker between the ears IMO and this drives his inconsistency. Either way, I agree that both fall pretty close together on the ball striking scale.

I don't. Rory's ball-striking valleys are not largely or even mostly "mental." The mental game is vastly over-stated…  A golfer's mental game doesn't change dramatically when he eagles a hole and then bogeys the next one (or vice versa). Rory's mechanics are "bad" (relatively speaking) more frequently than Tiger's did when Tiger was #1. Too many people IMO attribute too much to "the mental game."

[Lastpick]

I have a couple of questions about playing at Augusta National this summer.  If I drive out there to play, do I need a tee time or can I just walk on?

[skydog]

I don't. Rory's ball-striking valleys are not largely or even mostly "mental." The mental game is vastly over-stated…  A golfer's mental game doesn't change dramatically when he eagles a hole and then bogeys the next one (or vice versa). Rory's mechanics are "bad" (relatively speaking) more frequently than Tiger's did when Tiger was #1. Too many people IMO attribute too much to "the mental game."

I strongly disagree, but we disagree on most things so I'll leave it at that.

[Golfingdad]

No those are the large concession huts and restrooms

Ah, OK.

I have a couple of questions about playing at Augusta National this summer.  If I drive out there to play, do I need a tee time or can I just walk on?

That's only one question.

But considering that the course is closed (I'm pretty sure) over the summer, if you can hop a fence, maybe you can just walk right on. Try it and let us know how it works out.

[skydog]

I have a couple of questions about playing at Augusta National this summer.  If I drive out there to play, do I need a tee time or can I just walk on?

I actually think the easiest time to get on the course to play would be during a Masters practice round. They open up the practice rounds to all past major champions, so show up there with a caddy, act like you own the place and are a random past major winner, and stroll out on the first tee. Watching the practice rounds you'll see a handful of old one and done type major champs playing by themselves who no one in the gallery knows.

[tdiii]

. Rory's ball-striking valleys are not largely or even mostly "mental." The mental game is vastly over-stated…  A golfer's mental game doesn't change dramatically when he eagles a hole and then bogeys the next one (or vice versa). Rory's mechanics are "bad" (relatively speaking) more frequently than Tiger's did when Tiger was #1. Too many people IMO attribute too much to "the mental game."

Couldn't poor attitude cause poor mechanics?  These guys are pros so my mental midgetry may be a poor example, but if I am fearful of a pond left off the tee, it is entirely possible (okay, I admit it, probable) I hit a nasty, right of right, casting push slice.  I can drive the ball dozens of times on the course without that move materializing.  However, it is apt to materialize under pressure.

Couldn't even someone with superhuman skills like these guys see their mechanics suffer because they are in a bad place mentally?

[Gunther]

I have a couple of questions about playing at Augusta National this summer.  If I drive out there to play, do I need a tee time or can I just walk on?

lol, nice

[iacas]

I strongly disagree, but we disagree on most things so I'll leave it at that.

That's fine, then, but you also then disagree with just about every PGA Tour player with whom I've ever talked as well. And @david_wedzik very much so because we've talked about it quite a bit.

Mike Weir isn't struggling to stay on the PGA Tour because of his mental toughness. Mental toughness gives players an edge, but it's a fine, razor-sharp edge. You could get a player drunk or high and if they're not physically incapacitated, they'd still be a better golfer than you or I.

Couldn't poor attitude cause poor mechanics?

I'm not going to say "no, never" but… no, almost never.

These guys are pros so my mental midgetry may be a poor example, but if I am fearful of a pond left off the tee, it is entirely possible (okay, I admit it, probable) I hit a nasty, right of right, casting push slice.

That's not what we see on the PGA Tour. Rory couldn't hit a green with a wedge a few years ago. That wasn't him being fearful of a pond off the tee. That was his mechanics.

[skydog]

That's fine, then, but you also then disagree with just about every PGA Tour player with whom I've ever talked as well.

Great. I'm sure I disagree with many tour players on a lot of things.

Mike Weir isn't struggling to stay on the PGA Tour because of his mental toughness. Mental toughness gives players an edge, but it's a fine, razor-sharp edge.

And Rory doesn't go from dominating one week to disappearing the next because of faulty mechanics IMO. Confidence and focus are fleeting, mechanics are much less so.

[saturday]

Great. I'm sure I disagree with many tour players on a lot of things.

And Rory doesn't go from dominating one week to disappearing the next because of faulty mechanics IMO. Confidence and focus are fleeting, mechanics are not.

It's the faulty mechanics creating the swing, hence the direction the ball travels. If everyone's mechanics worked 100% on each swing, each round, each tournament everyone would be tied for 1st.

Disagreeing with tour pros, sure. You can't walk into a doctor's office and start debating medical methods and practices when you're a plumber.

[iacas]

And Rory doesn't go from dominating one week to disappearing the next because of faulty mechanics IMO. Confidence and focus are fleeting, mechanics are much less so.

Right, and that's why it doesn't often change week to week.

[Rick Martin]

I have a couple of questions about playing at Augusta National this summer.  If I drive out there to play, do I need a tee time or can I just walk on?

PM me and I'll let you know how you can play Augusta National.

Oh nevermind, I'll just post it here. Go to Best Buy and pick up an Xbox.