Bryson Dechambeau Plays Same-Length Irons

[Jeremie Boop]

When all the CGs are the same, them CG doesn't matter, just loft.

Not sure why you have to spend > $1000 to get "not crap". You never even saw the quality of the iron heads I put into my set, so not sure how you can be so sure you know what you're talking about.

All the iron heads of the big manufacturers are made in China just like mine were.

Pinhawk heads are made to exacting specs. I checked every one for loft and lie and total weight against the companies specs and they were within 1/2 degree and 1 gram, not sure you could say the same about the big manufacturers off the shelf $1000 sets.

Apollo shafts and Winn grip are not exactly what I would call "crap".

So, keep shoveling the status quo to the sheep, and selling the high priced arrows to the Indians. Everyone needs to make a living.

Funny, Erik has told just about every one of us that changing equipment won't help our swing at one point or another. Does he suggest Edel wedges and putter? Yeah, because he uses them and likes them. I'm sure he'd do the same regardless of the price of club. Outside of that he, and just about all of us here when asked, suggests getting fitted for equipment and choosing what gives the best numbers.

[mvmac]

All the iron heads of the big manufacturers are made in China just like mine were.

All factories in China aren't the same. There are good ones and "bad" ones. Not speaking directly to your clubs, I don't know anything about Pinhawks.

Funny, Erik has told just about every one of us that changing equipment won't help our swing at one point or another. Does he suggest Edel wedges and putter? Yeah, because he uses them and likes them. I'm sure he'd do the same regardless of the price of club. Outside of that he, and just about all of us here when asked, suggests getting fitted for equipment and choosing what gives the best numbers.

Yes you're going to have a much better chance at improving your game by spending money on quality instruction than buying a new driver.

[rdsandy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdsandy

When all the CGs are the same, them CG doesn't matter, just loft.

I wasn't responding to you, but the CGs are not the same club to club. Not even in one set, frankly, but I was saying that a TaylorMade RocketBladez might have a much stronger loft than a Mizuno muscleback but launch the ball much higher (or any other club-to-club comparison).

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdsandy

Not sure why you have to spend > $1000 to get "not crap". You never even saw the quality of the iron heads I put into my set, so not sure how you can be so sure you know what you're talking about.

Who said anything about > $1000? The clubheads alone are $95.70 for 5-PW on valuegolf.com. 5-PW sets start at $199 with no work. Add grips and spine alignment and you're up to about $250. And… they're Pinhawks. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdsandy

Pinhawk heads are made to exacting specs. I checked every one for loft and lie and total weight against the companies specs and they were within 1/2 degree and 1 gram, not sure you could say the same about the big manufacturers off the shelf $1000 sets.

I'm glad you're happy with them. Personally I'd look to values on eBay first.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdsandy

So, keep shoveling the status quo to the sheep, and selling the high priced arrows to the Indians. Everyone needs to make a living.

Yeah, cuz… that's what I do.  I'm definitely the guy pushing the status quo with regards to equipment here. Don't improve your golf swing… just buy expensive equipment. You've got me pegged!!

I built my set for under $200. Grips ($42), heads ($96), and shafts ($30), epoxy, ferrules, shipping, tax, misc. (<$32). I splined/FLOed them myself and trimmed the shafts to make sure the stiffness was +/- 2 cpm. But regardless, say you buy them from the company assembled for $250+. Your implication was/is that if they are not expensive they are crap. So yes, although you espouse the merits of a better swing you are exhibiting the traits of an equipment snob. "Can't be any good if the didn't cost a lot" mentality. Even your reply, 'after you spent $250 you've got a set of Pinhawks, smiley face'. This retort supports my premise.

Have you ever touched or swung a Pinhawk club? If not, then I can only assume you think they're crap because of their cost.

BTW, another advantage of having Pinhawks (and generic headcovers) is that when my cart is parked in the lot after a round and I'm going to be in the restaurant for an hour or so, I always make sure I'm next to the cart with a bag full of the latest Titleist, Callaway, Taylormade irons/woods and a Scotty Cameron putter. Higher level of probability that my clubs will still be there when I get done eating. :)

[saevel25]

I built my set for under $200. Grips ($42), heads ($96), and shafts ($30), epoxy, ferrules, shipping, tax, misc. (

You forgot to mention a frequency matching machine can cost upwards of $500 dollars. So not really under $200 dollars there.

BTW, another advantage of having Pinhawks (and generic headcovers) is that when my cart is parked in the lot after a round and I'm going to be in the restaurant for an hour or so, I always make sure I'm next to the cart with a bag full of the latest Titleist, Callaway, Taylormade irons/woods and a Scotty Cameron putter. Higher level of probability that my clubs will still be there when I get done eating. :)

I've been playing golf for over 15 years now and never have I ever seen clubs sitting in carts near the clubhouse after a round of golf. It just doesn't happen. So the idea you actually park those clubs next to other carts with clubs after a round is ludicrous. There would be no carts sitting there to begin with.

Even if you did, people only steal stuff of some value. It begs to question the quality and worth of your clubs when they get passed over for Taylormade irons.

[Jeremie Boop]

You forgot to mention a frequency matching machine can cost upwards of $500 dollars. So not really under $200 dollars there.

I've been playing golf for over 15 years now and never have I ever seen clubs sitting in carts near the clubhouse after a round of golf. It just doesn't happen. So the idea you actually park those clubs next to other carts with clubs after a round is ludicrous. There would be no carts sitting there to begin with.

Even if you did, people only steal stuff of some value. It begs to question the quality and worth of your clubs when they get passed over for Taylormade irons.

Hey now, that's a low blow.

[rdsandy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdsandy

I built my set for under $200. Grips ($42), heads ($96), and shafts ($30), epoxy, ferrules, shipping, tax, misc. (<$32). I splined/FLOed them myself and trimmed the shafts to make sure the stiffness was +/- 2 cpm. But regardless, say you buy them from the company assembled for $250+.

You forgot to mention a frequency matching machine can cost upwards of $500 dollars. So not really under $200 dollars there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdsandy

BTW, another advantage of having Pinhawks (and generic headcovers) is that when my cart is parked in the lot after a round and I'm going to be in the restaurant for an hour or so, I always make sure I'm next to the cart with a bag full of the latest Titleist, Callaway, Taylormade irons/woods and a Scotty Cameron putter. Higher level of probability that my clubs will still be there when I get done eating. :)

I've been playing golf for over 15 years now and never have I ever seen clubs sitting in carts near the clubhouse after a round of golf. It just doesn't happen. So the idea you actually park those clubs next to other carts with clubs after a round is ludicrous. There would be no carts sitting there to begin with.

Even if you did, people only steal stuff of some value. It begs to question the quality and worth of your clubs when they get passed over for Taylormade irons.

My frequency machine was purchased on ebay 5 years ago for $200.

Just because you have never ever seen what I've described doesn't mean it isn't so. You clearly have never been to where I live. There are always 25-50, sometimes more, carts with bags in the parking lot and cart parking area of multiple clubhouse restaurants on a daily basis. So, what is ludicrous, is that you would put yourself out there with your 15 years of golfing experience and make such a ludicrous conclusion.

[iacas]

I built my set for under $200. Grips ($42), heads ($96), and shafts ($30), epoxy, ferrules, shipping, tax, misc. (

Tell you what… I'll go "full heel" on this one. In my opinion, they're crap. There, now we can just move beyond that, right?

As the rest of the stuff is off topic, I'll skip it and just end with this.

I'm glad the single-length irons work for Bryson, but I don't think they're a general advantage for everyone. You still have different swings with different clubs (like driver, etc.) and you still have to hit the ball solidly with whatever length club you have. If you go single-length you also have to modify your lofts and other things in non-standard ways (or have goofy gaps).

[rdsandy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdsandy

I built my set for under $200. Grips ($42), heads ($96), and shafts ($30), epoxy, ferrules, shipping, tax, misc. (<$32). I splined/FLOed them myself and trimmed the shafts to make sure the stiffness was +/- 2 cpm. But regardless, say you buy them from the company assembled for $250+. Your implication was/is that if they are not expensive they are crap.

Tell you what… I'll go "full heel" on this one. In my opinion, they're crap. There, now we can just move beyond that, right?

As the rest of the stuff is off topic, I'll skip it and just end with this.

I'm glad the single-length irons work for Bryson, but I don't think they're a general advantage for everyone. You still have different swings with different clubs (like driver, etc.) and you still have to hit the ball solidly with whatever length club you have. If you go single-length you also have to modify your lofts and other things in non-standard ways (or have goofy gaps).

Q.E.D. You have no substantive reason to determine a set of clubs is crap but since you decree it, it is so. Must be nice to be all knowing, but then again you did write a book and you are the king of the site, so I submit to your holiness. Bye.

[Mac62]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iacas

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdsandy

I built my set for under $200. Grips ($42), heads ($96), and shafts ($30), epoxy, ferrules, shipping, tax, misc. (<$32). I splined/FLOed them myself and trimmed the shafts to make sure the stiffness was +/- 2 cpm. But regardless, say you buy them from the company assembled for $250+. Your implication was/is that if they are not expensive they are crap.

Tell you what… I'll go "full heel" on this one. In my opinion, they're crap. There, now we can just move beyond that, right?

As the rest of the stuff is off topic, I'll skip it and just end with this.

I'm glad the single-length irons work for Bryson, but I don't think they're a general advantage for everyone. You still have different swings with different clubs (like driver, etc.) and you still have to hit the ball solidly with whatever length club you have. If you go single-length you also have to modify your lofts and other things in non-standard ways (or have goofy gaps).

Q.E.D. You have no substantive reason to determine a set of clubs is crap but since you decree it, it is so. Must be nice to be all knowing, but then again you did write a book and you are the king of the site, so I submit to your holiness. Bye.

In all fairness, he did say " In my opinion , they're crap."  He didn't "decree" anything.  Everybody is entitled to their opinion and a "substantive reason" for it is optional.  He did, however, explain in detail why he doesn't think that one-length irons are best suited for everybody - including "substantive reasons" based upon his knowledge and experience as a teaching pro.  Seems like you're taking it a little too personally.

[iacas]

In all fairness, he did say "In my opinion, they're crap."  He didn't "decree" anything.  Everybody is entitled to their opinion and a "substantive reason" for it is optional.  He did, however, explain in detail why he doesn't think that one-length irons are best suited for everybody - including "substantive reasons" based upon his knowledge and experience as a teaching pro.  Seems like you're taking it a little too personally.

Yeah, as butthurt as you want to be by your clubs that may or may not be crap depending on who you ask, @rdsandy , the topic here is single-length irons. I'm glad they work for you, but… I don't believe they're a magical idea that golfers should try.

[Strandly]

Q.E.D. You have no substantive reason to determine a set of clubs is crap but since you decree it, it is so. Must be nice to be all knowing, but then again you did write a book and you are the king of the site, so I submit to your holiness. Bye.

I'm a 30 handicap nobody and I think they're crap too.  Now what?

[vangator]

I'm a 30 handicap nobody and I think they're crap too.  Now what?

Have you played with Single Length clubs for a while? Why were they crap? They take a little getting used to, but in the long run they're great.

[Jeremie Boop]

Have you played with Single Length clubs for a while? Why were they crap?

They take a little getting used to, but in the long run they're great.

I'm not sure he was saying he used single length clubs, I think he was just adding his opinion to Iacas's about rdsandy's clubs.

[iacas]

They take a little getting used to, but in the long run they're great.

Since this is on topic, explain more.

I don't think the benefits outweigh the disadvantages. You're still going to have different length clubs (driver, fairways, hybrids) and you're going to have to tweak the lofts and lies of the entire set of irons to properly gap your set. So the small advantage (one club length) that isn't really an advantage (you will still have different club lengths) doesn't seem to outweigh the cons.

[Strandly]

Have you played with Single Length clubs for a while? Why were they crap?

They take a little getting used to, but in the long run they're great.

Haha, yeah I have no idea about any of this.  I just thought that guy who was all butthurt was being a baby about it.

[newtogolf]

Since this is on topic, explain more.

I don't think the benefits outweigh the disadvantages. You're still going to have different length clubs (driver, fairways, hybrids) and you're going to have to tweak the lofts and lies of the entire set of irons to properly gap your set. So the small advantage (one club length) that isn't really an advantage (you will still have different club lengths) doesn't seem to outweigh the cons.

I agree, if you still have woods of different lengths you have to change your swing for them so why bother making all your irons and wedges the same length?

I'm guessing that in order to compensate for the shorter shaft length the lofts have to be jacked up on the 3i - 6i which could make them harder for some people to hit as well.  The loft on my standard length 4i is 22* so what would it be on his set, 18*?

[Pinhawk]

Tell you what… I'll go "full heel" on this one. In my opinion, they're crap. There, now we can just move beyond that, right?

As the rest of the stuff is off topic, I'll skip it and just end with this.

I'm glad the single-length irons work for Bryson, but I don't think they're a general advantage for everyone. You still have different swings with different clubs (like driver, etc.) and you still have to hit the ball solidly with whatever length club you have. If you go single-length you also have to modify your lofts and other things in non-standard ways (or have goofy gaps).

I was alerted to this thread, so I had to sign up and post.

Can I ask why you have formed the opinion that Pinhawks are "crap"? Have you ever seen them in person or hit one? It seems as if one reason you say so (correct me if I'm wrong) is because they are relatively inexpensive. So if they were expensive that would correlate to quality for you? It's funny, because the only other competitor the Pinhawk's currently have is 1rongolf, who charges upwards of $1200 for their "Pro-Line" set. So if you look at price as a gauge of quality, they must be nicer clubs. When in reality they are a 15 year old foundry design based on the TM Supersteel.

As far as them being an "advantage for everyone", I don't think anyone is claiming that. Do they make the game easier for some? Yes. Our happy customers and sales have proven that. Is a Pro going to use them? Probably not, but Bryson has done a pretty bang up job of "proof of concept".

You talked earlier about properly gapping your clubs and that the longer irons would need to be stronger lofted. You're correct, and it something we considered with the design. Our 5 iron is 25 degrees for example, with a 5 degree gap down to the PW. This helps even out the gaps in distance.

We've been in the golf business a long time, and we put a lot of sweat and tears into this design. It turned out well, and I have to respectfully say they are not "crap".

I'm especially disappointed in your post because I see you are a local. :)

If you see Tom around WW sometime, tell him I'm taking his suggestion and working on point of sale for Prosoft Inserts.

[vangator]

Since this is on topic, explain more. I don't think the benefits outweigh the disadvantages. You're still going to have different length clubs (driver, fairways, hybrids) and you're going to have to tweak the lofts and lies of the entire set of irons to properly gap your set. So the small advantage (one club length) that isn't really an advantage (you will still have different club lengths) doesn't seem to outweigh the cons.

I think Pinhawk did a great job of explaining the SL point of view. Since there are 6 irons (5-PW) the same length and you could / should have the other wedges the same length, so that could be 2 or 3 more. Pinhawks come with a 4 hybrid which will be the same length. As for the woods, the driver is hit off a tee and for most is a different swing. The fairway woods would be a different ball position, but these clubs are used a lot less than the irons (at least for me). There is a third company I found that has almost single length. Simpletons use two lengths. One length for the short irons and another longer length for the long irons. I'd like to see some of these up close. This may be a better idea. I think the biggest advantage is that the ball is not only in the same position along the target line but also from the body. It is so nice (ie imparts confidence) to play the 7 iron the same you would play the PW. I wonder how I'd play if I went back to traditional clubs? I'd say I'd start hitting the approaches erratically again.