What do you consider scratch?

[flopster]

Who considers this player a "scratch" golfer?

77 72.6/132

75 72.6/132

74 72.3/137

80 73.1/141

72 72.7/138

74 72.7/138

79 72.9/133

81 72.9/133

74 72.3/135

72 73.9/138

75 74.1/131

72 72.8/128

75 69.1/121

77 73.6/133

81 73.6/133

69 72.7/127

72 72.7/127

78 72.6/131

78 72.9/133

71 72.9/133

Absolutely, scoring average is only 72.5 on his 10 revision rounds, I would say a +1 is fairly close.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MEfree

Who considers this player a "scratch" golfer?

77 72.6/132

75 72.6/132

74 72.3/137

80 73.1/141

72 72.7/138

74 72.7/138

79 72.9/133

81 72.9/133

74 72.3/135

72 73.9/138

75 74.1/131

72 72.8/128

75 69.1/121

77 73.6/133

81 73.6/133

69 72.7/127

72 72.7/127

78 72.6/131

78 72.9/133

71 72.9/133

Absolutely, scoring average is only 72.5 on his 10 revision rounds, I would say a +1 is fairly close.

If you adjust for the CR and slope to calculate the differentials, then he's about +0.4.

[MEfree]

If you adjust for the CR and slope to calculate the differentials, then he's about +0.4.

Yes, he is either a +0.3 or 0.4 right now and has been as low as a +0.7. 17 of the 20 rounds were in Junior tournaments at a variety of courses including at least 1 win in a 36 hole event. Not sure if he meets Mike's definition of scratch as it appears at least 70% of the rounds were over par.

[Nosevi]

Seriously weird attitude, wonder who the guy was. What possible difference would it make to anyone else where they hit their final tee shot from? I'd have thanked him for his 'advice' and told him to push off.

[mvmac]

Seems like your standards are pretty high- most of the people you describe would have solid + handicaps.

Not all courses allow everyone to play the back tees. I played Torrey Pines South recently with 3 Canada//E Tour pros. The score card shows the back tees with a 78+ rating and says "by permission only." They had gotten permission but on the 18th tee someone still came up and told them they were not allowed to play from back there. He said "only PGA Tour" pros were allowed to play there and that the starter was not authorized to give them permission. One of the guys was a Collegiate All-American and Mountain West player of the year and the guy finally relented and let them hit their final tee shot of the day, but it seemed pretty clear that they were not in the habit of letting just anyone play the tips (which did not have any tee markers set up on them).

Yes I get that there are a lot of courses that don't let you play the "pro" tees, by back I basically meant as far back as they'll let you play on public courses and the blue/black tees (whatever color designation they use) at private courses. Maybe a simpler way to put it is, the tees they play in the state amateur, US amateur, city tournament, etc.

The point is a scratch player isn't playing the white tees, unless maybe the player is a young junior/female/old dude.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MEfree

Seems like your standards are pretty high- most of the people you describe would have solid + handicaps.

Not all courses allow everyone to play the back tees. I played Torrey Pines South recently with 3 Canada//E Tour pros. The score card shows the back tees with a 78+ rating and says "by permission only." They had gotten permission but on the 18th tee someone still came up and told them they were not allowed to play from back there. He said "only PGA Tour" pros were allowed to play there and that the starter was not authorized to give them permission. One of the guys was a Collegiate All-American and Mountain West player of the year and the guy finally relented and let them hit their final tee shot of the day, but it seemed pretty clear that they were not in the habit of letting just anyone play the tips (which did not have any tee markers set up on them).

Yes I get that there are a lot of courses that don't let you play the "pro" tees, by back I basically meant as far back as they'll let you play on public courses and the blue/black tees (whatever color designation they use) at private courses. Maybe a simpler way to put it is, the tees they play in the state amateur, US amateur, city tournament, etc.

The point is a scratch player isn't playing the white tees, unless maybe the player is a young junior/female/old dude.

This makes it sound like only debilitated scratch players play the white tees?

[flopster]

If you adjust for the CR and slope to calculate the differentials, then he's about +0.4.

Yep, most people don't understand that being scratch doesn't mean most of your scores hover around par, I know many low digit and + index guys who get very hot one day and then wild the next but because the 10 worst scores are discarded  they wind up with a very low index, I knew one guy shot 64 one day then 87 the next so you just never know.

[saevel25]

Yep, most people don't understand that being scratch doesn't mean most of your scores hover around par, I know many low digit and + index guys who get very hot one day and then wild the next but because the 10 worst scores are discarded  they wind up with a very low index, I knew one guy shot 64 one day then 87 the next so you just never know.

Your friend would be an outlier if he's fluctuating between 64 and 87.

By equation a scratch player would have the last 10 out of 20 scores with an average handicap differentials of zero. I'd say anything above an 80 would be a rare occassion. Scratch player you are probably getting 50-60% scrambling. Heck, even if they miss every green on the course you are looking at low 80's as a worst case scenario.

[BallStriker]

I would say a zero or better is scratch......as an FYI, here is what I found for the USGA's perspective

For the purposes of rating the difficulty of golf courses through course rating and slope rating , the USGA defines a scratch golfer thusly: "An amateur player who plays to the standard of the stroke play qualifiers competing in the United States Amateur Championship. The male scratch golfer hits his tee shots an average of 250 yards and can reach a 470-yard hole in two shots. The female scratch golfer can hit her tee shots an average of 210 yards and can reach a 400-yard hole in two shots."

[misty_mountainhop]

Anybody who has a handicap under 1.

Ummmm, this???

[Crazycanuck44]

I just scratch my head after a shot and think "What @&%# was that?

[WUTiger]

I would say a zero or better is scratch......as an FYI, here is what I found for the USGA's perspective

For the purposes of rating the difficulty of golf courses through course rating and slope rating, the USGA defines a scratch golfer thusly: "An amateur player who plays to the standard of the stroke play qualifiers competing in the United States Amateur Championship. The male scratch golfer hits his tee shots an average of 250 yards and can reach a 470-yard hole in two shots. The female scratch golfer can hit her tee shots an average of 210 yards and can reach a 400-yard hole in two shots."

Hnadicap indexes take into account the course ratings and slope ratings of the various courses a person plays. So, a person who has a 1.0 HDCP index could be a scratch golfer, even though his 10 "keeper" scores out of 20 from his home course only.

The above remark about the quality of US Amateur Championship competitors is reflected in the rules for qualifying in the USAC: golfer must have HDCP Index of 2.4 or better. So, does this mean a scratch golfer has a HDCP Index of 2.4 or less? Can this shift from year to year, according to HI requirements for the US Amateur?

Similarly, to enter U.S. Open local qualifying, an amateur golfer must have a HDCP Index of 1.4 or better.

The below link contains qualifying info on all 13 USGA championships:

https://champs.usga.org/