What Climate Wars Did To Science

[newtogolf]

7 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

Well said, sir! The outright paranoia and hysteria over nuke power drives me right up the wall! They used to give tours of nuke plants in France. You could even go look at the core! They used to give those tours until they were invaded by Islamofascists who turned entire Arrondissements around Paris into kill zones where even the army is afraid to set foot!

The real topper was Hillaryous's recent TV ad about clean energy in which she says the world leaders will be the US, Germany or China! CHINA??!!! China is the world leader in dirty energy. It wasn't that long ago when China was opening a new coal fired generating plant every week or two!

Wind and solar energy are coming along, but are far less efficient than any other source of power that we currently have. "Hey, all we have to do is carpet an entire township in solar panels or wind turbines, and we can power a couple of decent sized neighborhoods!"

 

My positions on energy are not party loyal, they are just admittedly selfish.  I just want the same convenience, comfort, driving distance and recharge / refuel time as the car I drive now.  I don't care if the car is powered by gas, electric, solar or dirt.  When I drive to MD, NC or SC from NY I don't want to have a planned stop for over an hour while my electric car charges.  

Based on our energy needs, nuclear is the only alternative source that makes sense.  We've learned a lot about nuclear from some early failures, more fail safes have to be built in and locations need to be better chosen but I think it's our best option  

Wind power is nice but good luck convincing those that live in $5 million dollar homes on both coasts that their ocean views will be obscured by thousands of wind mills.  

Solar power is in its infancy, it's not efficient and in areas that get minimal sun it's not practical.  We are going to lose one of our golf courses here on Long Island (Tall Grass) to a solar farm, though the permits keep getting delayed.  At this point the power numbers aren't available but if the new panels work better and last longer I'm open to that as an option.  

While I have no issue with the US leading the way towards clean energy we have to get China and India on board, China is dumping twice the amount of CO2 into the air than we are, and they continue to build coal burning and gas burning power plants at a fast rate.  

I'd also like to see some of the real anti-fossil fuel politicians go all in on alternative energy.  Last time I checked, Gore was still flying all over the world in his fossil fueled powered Jet and living in a mansion that eats up more megawatts of power than a small neighborhood.  

[nevets88]

Of course if we steadily adopt alternative energy sources, there will be pain, but whether we do or not, change in general has been nothing but pandemic in the world lately. If they're wrong about climate change, the worst case is Schumpeter's creative destruction, which is happening anyways, and we have a cleaner earth. If they're right about CC and we do nothing, then we keep accelerating the process of wearing out Mother Earth.

 

[Spanky]

6 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

My positions on energy are not party loyal, they are just admittedly selfish.  I just want the same convenience, comfort, driving distance and recharge / refuel time as the car I drive now.  I don't care if the car is powered by gas, electric, solar or dirt.  When I drive to MD, NC or SC from NY I don't want to have a planned stop for over an hour while my electric car charges.  

Based on our energy needs, nuclear is the only alternative source that makes sense.  We've learned a lot about nuclear from some early failures, more fail safes have to be built in and locations need to be better chosen but I think it's our best option  

Wind power is nice but good luck convincing those that live in $5 million dollar homes on both coasts that their ocean views will be obscured by thousands of wind mills.  

Solar power is in its infancy, it's not efficient and in areas that get minimal sun it's not practical.  We are going to lose one of our golf courses here on Long Island (Tall Grass) to a solar farm, though the permits keep getting delayed.  At this point the power numbers aren't available but if the new panels work better and last longer I'm open to that as an option.  

While I have no issue with the US leading the way towards clean energy we have to get China and India on board, China is dumping twice the amount of CO2 into the air than we are, and they continue to build coal burning and gas burning power plants at a fast rate.  

I'd also like to see some of the real anti-fossil fuel politicians go all in on alternative energy.  Last time I checked, Gore was still flying all over the world in his fossil fueled powered Jet and living in a mansion that eats up more megawatts of power than a small neighborhood.  

Unfortunately it's that narcissistic, short sighted blame someone else attitude that is part of the problem. Not he solution. Sure they the biggest contributors, but that is not an excuse to not take the high road and do what obviously right for all of us. Energy corporations are in panic mode due to a dwindling consumption in part due to our clean/green  transitions. They are impacting our planets health in a big way. Something to be happy about? These commercials the energy corporations are propaganda and damage control as their ridiculous profits wane. I know when most middle income earning folks go to the pump they are not thrilled to see the price go up when it is all they can do to put food on the table and house their families. So lets keep defending those who are taking food out of the mouths of our children.

[phillyk]

7 hours ago, Strandly said:

If folks want to continue investigating it then that's fine but until the consequences of a changing climate become clear, and they will given enough time, I don't plan to spend a lot of time and energy thinking about it.

I can start you out with coral bleaching (coral reefs dying), thousands of fish species being killed off because their homes can't be supported by the increasing acidity.  The ocean takes a major chunk of CO2 emissions and absorbs it.  The cycles of the ocean can dim its effects somewhat.  But, the ocean is changing because of increased temperatures and CO2.  I can give you books or many scientific journal articles if you'd like.

[Gunther]

35 minutes ago, phillyk said:

I can start you out with coral bleaching (coral reefs dying), thousands of fish species being killed off because their homes can't be supported by the increasing acidity.  The ocean takes a major chunk of CO2 emissions and absorbs it.  The cycles of the ocean can dim its effects somewhat.  But, the ocean is changing because of increased temperatures and CO2.  I can give you books or many scientific journal articles if you'd like.

This is the kind of alarmicism that is anathema to me.

1.  I don't doubt there are books and journal articles that support it, there were books and articles that claimed the ice caps would be gone by now too.

2.  I'm pretty sure overfishing is a more imminent threat to declining fish populations than CO2 emissions.

3.  In either case (overfishing and pollution), it's other countries that are committing far more atrocious transgressions than we are.  Let's lead the way to get other countries in line with our emissions (and fishing limitations, for that matter) before we impose draconian measures on our own people and small businesses that really do nothing to thwart the global "threat" which ostensibly exists.

[14ledo81]

1 hour ago, Spanky said:

Unfortunately it's that narcissistic, short sighted blame someone else attitude that is part of the problem. Not he solution. Sure they the biggest contributors, but that is not an excuse to not take the high road and do what obviously right for all of us. Energy corporations are in panic mode due to a dwindling consumption in part due to our clean/green  transitions. They are impacting our planets health in a big way. Something to be happy about? These commercials the energy corporations are propaganda and damage control as their ridiculous profits wane. I know when most middle income earning folks go to the pump they are not thrilled to see the price go up when it is all they can do to put food on the table and house their families. So lets keep defending those who are taking food out of the mouths of our children.

Are you talking about those trying to take food out of the mouths of coal miners children?

[baller7345]

24 minutes ago, Gunther said:

This is the kind of alarmicism that is anathema to me.

1.  I don't doubt there are books and journal articles that support it, there were books and articles that claimed the ice caps would be gone by now too.

2.  I'm pretty sure overfishing is a more imminent threat to declining fish populations than CO2 emissions.

3.  In either case (overfishing and pollution), it's other countries that are committing far more atrocious transgressions than we are.  Let's lead the way to get other countries in line with our emissions (and fishing limitations, for that matter) before we impose draconian measures on our own people and small businesses that really do nothing to thwart the global "threat" which ostensibly exists.

Outlook on Coral Bleaching

‘Unprecedented': Third straight year of global coral bleaching to target U.S. reefs, scientists say

Coral Bleaching - Skeptical Science

Early Warning Signs for Widespread Coral Bleaching in 2016

Study: Over 90% of Great Barrier Reef suffering from coral bleaching

Survey confirms worst-ever coral bleaching at Great Barrier Reef

In the case of coral bleaching it isn't really alarmicism.  The Great Barrier Reef (and other reefs) are at a tipping point, and while there is a chance we are underestimating the ability of corals to cope with changing temperatures it is fairly common knowledge that they are very sensitive to changes in water temperature.  In the warmer waters the reefs are the main hub of oceanic life, and really help support the ecosystem.  Over fishing is definitely a huge ecological problem and needs to be addressed, but to discount the effects of climate change is being ignorant of the main problem.  Increases in over fishing, climate change, and pollution all have a positive correlation to the boom of human population and industrial technology.  People seem to have no issue linking industrial byproducts and industrial fishing methods to things like over fishing and pollution, but to do the same with climate change, and suddenly we can no longer be sure we are the problem.  It seems highly illogical to me.

[Jeremie Boop]

11 hours ago, newtogolf said:

Tesla is also installing at least one super charging station on the NJ Turnpike and one on the Garden State Parkway, but I believe they will only be for Tesla Model S owners.  

I am sure they will eventually get there and when that time comes I'll buy a Tesla (if they are still in business) or whatever car is comparable at that time.  I've driven in a Tesla Model S, nice car and very fast but it takes an hour to super charge after 275 miles, that doesn't work for me.  

The limited range and long charge time is pretty much the only thing that keeps me from being seriously interested in electric vehicles. I drive more than 275 miles in a day quite a few times a year, and while that's the mileage that is stated I doubt that I'd push it to the limit considering running out of juice is not as easily remedied as running out of gas, so I would probably limit my range to more around the 200 mile range to be safe. I can see electric cars being fantastic for city and short distance driving though. I think if someone implemented a program to provide incentives for people who live/work in cities to purchase electric vehicles as well as things like taxi services and other delivery services it would do a great deal to help reduce emissions.

[Gunther]

36 minutes ago, baller7345 said:

Outlook on Coral Bleaching

‘Unprecedented': Third straight year of global coral bleaching to target U.S. reefs, scientists say

Coral Bleaching - Skeptical Science

Early Warning Signs for Widespread Coral Bleaching in 2016

Study: Over 90% of Great Barrier Reef suffering from coral bleaching

Survey confirms worst-ever coral bleaching at Great Barrier Reef

In the case of coral bleaching it isn't really alarmicism.  The Great Barrier Reef (and other reefs) are at a tipping point, and while there is a chance we are underestimating the ability of corals to cope with changing temperatures it is fairly common knowledge that they are very sensitive to changes in water temperature.  In the warmer waters the reefs are the main hub of oceanic life, and really help support the ecosystem.  Over fishing is definitely a huge ecological problem and needs to be addressed, but to discount the effects of climate change is being ignorant of the main problem.  Increases in over fishing, climate change, and pollution all have a positive correlation to the boom of human population and industrial technology.  People seem to have no issue linking industrial byproducts and industrial fishing methods to things like over fishing and pollution, but to do the same with climate change, and suddenly we can no longer be sure we are the problem.  It seems highly illogical to me.

Good post, thanks for the links, I'll read a couple of them.  Still the issue for me, however, is that cutting US emissions by 50% from current levels, for example, would cause extreme hardship here yet only have perhaps 5 or 10% impact on the global emission rate.  I'm making those numbers up but I believe they're in the ballpark.

[Golfingdad]

1 hour ago, Jeremie Boop said:

The limited range and long charge time is pretty much the only thing that keeps me from being seriously interested in electric vehicles ... I doubt that I'd push it to the limit ...

Oh come on.  You know those numbers are conservative ...

 

[Spanky]

2 hours ago, Gunther said:

This is the kind of alarmicism that is anathema to me.

1.  I don't doubt there are books and journal articles that support it, there were books and articles that claimed the ice caps would be gone by now too.

2.  I'm pretty sure overfishing is a more imminent threat to declining fish populations than CO2 emissions.

3.  In either case (overfishing and pollution), it's other countries that are committing far more atrocious transgressions than we are.  Let's lead the way to get other countries in line with our emissions (and fishing limitations, for that matter) before we impose draconian measures on our own people and small businesses that really do nothing to thwart the global "threat" which ostensibly exists.

It's obvious, no matter how smart you try to sound, your motivations are transparent...

1 hour ago, baller7345 said:

Outlook on Coral Bleaching

‘Unprecedented': Third straight year of global coral bleaching to target U.S. reefs, scientists say

Coral Bleaching - Skeptical Science

Early Warning Signs for Widespread Coral Bleaching in 2016

Study: Over 90% of Great Barrier Reef suffering from coral bleaching

Survey confirms worst-ever coral bleaching at Great Barrier Reef

In the case of coral bleaching it isn't really alarmicism.  The Great Barrier Reef (and other reefs) are at a tipping point, and while there is a chance we are underestimating the ability of corals to cope with changing temperatures it is fairly common knowledge that they are very sensitive to changes in water temperature.  In the warmer waters the reefs are the main hub of oceanic life, and really help support the ecosystem.  Over fishing is definitely a huge ecological problem and needs to be addressed, but to discount the effects of climate change is being ignorant of the main problem.  Increases in over fishing, climate change, and pollution all have a positive correlation to the boom of human population and industrial technology.  People seem to have no issue linking industrial byproducts and industrial fishing methods to things like over fishing and pollution, but to do the same with climate change, and suddenly we can no longer be sure we are the problem.  It seems highly illogical to me.

I stand behind Baller7345, we should be very alarmed when realistic best case scenario's are grim.  

[Spanky]

Seriously?  comparatively there no caparison. Sure all children are important, but there is just far far far more children not living in a mining town. Yes we are all important as each other but you cannot make everyone else pay for your choice. 

[Gunther]

24 minutes ago, Spanky said:

It's obvious, no matter how smart you try to sound, your motivations are transparent...

I think I've been very clear with my feelings on this from the beginning of the thread, I'm pretty transparent.  I don't really have any motivations around it.  

I think your motivations are far more questionable given that you're on a golf site and every one of your 12 posts have been on global warming or Kaepernick.

Do you even golf?

[Ernest Jones]

20 minutes ago, Gunther said:

I think I've been very clear with my feelings on this from the beginning of the thread, I'm pretty transparent.  I don't really have any motivations around it.  

I think your motivations are far more questionable given that you're on a golf site and every one of your 12 posts have been on global warming or Kaepernick.

Do you even golf?

Gotta side with The Gunthman on this one @Spanky. The Gunth is consistent as hell. 

[Spanky]

Good for you EJ, everyone needs a buddy. my 12 pots to your thousands , I would like like to say thought provoking..but your not.

2-3 times a week TYVM.

[Jeremie Boop]

2 minutes ago, Spanky said:

Good for you EJ, everyone needs a buddy. my 12 pots to your thousands , I would like like to say thought provoking..but your not.

2-3 times a week TYVM.

Here's the thing, EJ and Gunther are about as far from being "buddies" as possible when it comes to pretty much any discussion around here. That said, Gunther's point is valid. On a forum for Golf to have every post in non-golf related threads is a bit strange. Whenever it's noticed that someone is focusing solely on controversial non-golf related topics only, we tend to encourage that person to post in other threads that are golf related as well. That's not to say your posts here aren't valid or accurate, but it's good to also step away from these more heavy discussions too.

[Spanky]

19 minutes ago, Jeremie Boop said:

Here's the thing, EJ and Gunther are about as far from being "buddies" as possible when it comes to pretty much any discussion around here. That said, Gunther's point is valid. On a forum for Golf to have every post in non-golf related threads is a bit strange. Whenever it's noticed that someone is focusing solely on controversial non-golf related topics only, we tend to encourage that person to post in other threads that are golf related as well. That's not to say your posts here aren't valid or accurate, but it's good to also step away from these more heavy discussions too.

I totally agree, I am just new to the site and those two topics were the most compelling listed. BTW I totally love golf, and when I see a recent post that grabs me I will read that too. 

 

 

 

[Golfingdad]

1 hour ago, Gunther said:

I think I've been very clear with my feelings on this from the beginning of the thread, I'm pretty transparent.  I don't really have any motivations around it.  

I think your motivations are far more questionable given that you're on a golf site and every one of your 12 posts have been on global warming or Kaepernick.

Do you even golf?

 

28 minutes ago, Jeremie Boop said:

Here's the thing, EJ and Gunther are about as far from being "buddies" as possible when it comes to pretty much any discussion around here. That said, Gunther's point is valid. On a forum for Golf to have every post in non-golf related threads is a bit strange. Whenever it's noticed that someone is focusing solely on controversial non-golf related topics only, we tend to encourage that person to post in other threads that are golf related as well. That's not to say your posts here aren't valid or accurate, but it's good to also step away from these more heavy discussions too.

Let's be fair though guys.  He's only been here for a couple of days.  Those have been the two most talked about threads in those two days so there are a lot of us who haven't been talking about golf in that time frame.