Recreational "Tour" with Modified Rules, Good or Bad?

[iacas]

If you that concerned about people having a "unfair advantage" go find a amateur golf league, otherwise pull the stick from your :censored:  and just have some fun, and you'll probably win some money and make a couple friends.

Ummmmm, cool it, please. I also disagree with the notion that you cannot have fun playing under the Rules of Golf. I'm not saying you said that, but it's often implied in these kinds of discussions.

[Jon Hoover]

I also disagree with the notion that you cannot have fun playing under the Rules of Golf. I'm not saying you said that, but it's often implied in these kinds of discussions.

You can have fun playing any game with what ever rules they might have weather they are different from the USGA rules or not. Many recreational sports whether in leagues or not (softball, kickball, golf, basketball, hockey, flag football) all are usually played with modified rules, for fun and for socializing. If this is the first time your hearing of such a thing then idk what to tell you, it exists and people do it everywhere with every sport, golf is no different.

[David in FL]

You can have fun playing any game with what ever rules they might have weather they are different from the USGA rules or not. Many recreational sports whether in leagues or not (softball, kickball, golf, basketball, hockey) all are usually played with modified rules, for fun and for socializing. If this is the first time your hearing of such a thing then idk what to tell you, it exists and people do it everywhere with every sport, golf is no different.

If you can have just as much fun playing by the rules, why not do so and be done with it? Of course, as @iacas said, it's simply because you don't like the number that results on the scorecard when you do. It has nothing to do with pace of play, or damaging a club, or course conditions. The Rules already account for all those things. It just allows for people to write down a smaller number and somehow feel better about it. If that works for you, I absolutely don't care, but my response to the OP remains the same. As I said, we have plenty of threads discussing why the rules are what they are, so no need to rehash that here.

[turtleback]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iacas

sketchy?

If you don't want to bust your equipment:

Make a small swing and chip it sideways.

Declare it unplayable and take the penalty drop.

You're basically just doing #2 without the associated penalty. You get a 6, but write down a 5. Why? Do you feel better about yourself? You got a 6. But you write down a 5, and let others write down their 5s.

To what end? In that situation, you're literally just taking a stroke off. You're basically following the procedure for an unplayable lie… and just not taking the penalty stroke.

Playing by the rules is still fun. What it isn't is just taking 6 and writing down 5.

I guess some people define "fun" as "cheating" and "writing down a lower score than you actually got" and "lying to yourself about how good you are or aren't at a game."

You can have fun playing golf under the Rules. Especially when it's something goofy like the above: hit it or declare it unplayable. Same procedure… just don't lie and fail to add the penalty stroke.

I think it's not a big deal for casual golfers to play this way.  If it helps them enjoy the round more, makes it easier and quicker to get around the course, then by all means.

How does writing a 5 instead of a 4 make all this magic happen?

Quote:

Originally Posted by eich41

I think it would speed up play a bit. Your example is true in theory, but if faced with a bad lie, most people wont take a unplayable, they will just try to play from the bad lie, and hope for the best. Then they skull it or shank it and it ultimately takes longer. If you're laying 3 with a bad lie, you can take an unplayable, and hit five to the green and maybe make your double bogey and move on. Or you could just play it and maybe end up in the same spot. It may ultimately be smarter to take the unplayable, but 95% of players will not do so if there's a chance to avoid the penalty.

That's beside the point. They're taking the unplayable… just not the penalty that comes with it.

If your argument is that they might try to play it if there's a penalty… then it wasn't unplayable.

Interesting, the situation is so "bad" they are worried about damaging their club, yet 95% of them will play it anyway if they are not given a free drop.  Kind of puts the poop-stink on the "don't ant to damage my club" argument.

It is the difference between playing for the yankees and playing wiffle ball in the back yard with your son.

If you can not understand the difference you are taking yourself and the game way too seriously.

And the rules are for the people who are taking the game seriously.  And I include in that ANYONE who maintains a handicap because playing by the rules is fundamental to that.  And sorry, people DO brag about the scores they shot under these kinds of ersatz rules.  It is like someone telling you that they bowled a 300 without telling you that it was in a no-tap event.

The OP gives the impression of being a serious golfer so he was answered accordingly.

[Braivo]

The OP gives the impression of being a serious golfer so he was answered accordingly.

Yes, this is the correct context. I have recently established a legit USGA handicap and would like to start playing competitive golf. The opportunity arose to play in this "modified" rules tour and I was intrigued by it. I was looking for feedback as it related to the pros and cons of playing in such a tour.

Playing strictly by the rules has made the game much more enjoyable for me, now I can really compare my game to others as well as chart my own improvements accurately over time. If I fluff a lie here or there, or move off a tree root I have lost both of these comparisons.

I was trying to decide if the trade-offs were worth it to play in a tour that was convenient for my location and schedule.

[Jon Hoover]

If you can have just as much fun playing by the rules, why not do so and be done with it?

Well as I have said previously for example in the afternoon league I play in there are time constraints and its not always about me it is about everyone, did i create the rules no, am i so selfish that just because i can have fun playing by the USGA rules that I must force everyone to play by them nope. Is the league fun and entertaining yep, and do i win money yep. If you want to only participate in tournaments or leagues that only enforce strict USGA rules then go ahead but, the other 90% of leagues usually have modified rules for your average duffer.

[David in FL]

Well as I have said previously for example in the afternoon league I play in there are time constraints....

It's been proven time, and time again, playing by the real rules doesn't slow pace of play at all. I know 30 hcp golfers that can't break 100 on a good day that play by the rules and can finish 18 holes in well under 3 hours. Pace of play simply isn't an argument for modifying the rules that holds water.

[eich41]

How does writing a 5 instead of a 4 make all this magic happen? Interesting, the situation is so "bad" they are worried about damaging their club, yet 95% of them will play it anyway if they are not given a free drop.  Kind of puts the poop-stink on the "don't ant to damage my club" argument. And the rules are for the people who are taking the game seriously.  And I include in that ANYONE who maintains a handicap because playing by the rules is fundamental to that.  And sorry, people DO brag about the scores they shot under these kinds of ersatz rules.  It is like someone telling you that they bowled a 300 without telling you that it was in a no-tap event.  The OP gives the impression of being a serious golfer so he was answered accordingly.

I never made any comment to justify altering a lie to save a club from damage. What I was pointing out was that in theory moving a ball to a preferred lie and not taking the penalty is simply ignoring the penalty so you can write down a lower score. However on the course if these guys had to take a stroke, they would try to play it, often resulting in a poor shot that would delay play. Also as I stated before, I think competitive golf and these silly rules are contradictory to that, so I personally would see no point in playing. However if others chose to do so, I don't care. When they try to tell me they shot a 84 I know it's probably closer to 100, but it's no sweat off my back.

[Jon Hoover]

It's been proven time, and time again, playing by the real rules doesn't slow pace of play at all. I know 30 hcp golfers that can't break 100 on a good day that play by the rules and can finish 18 holes in well under 3 hours. Pace of play simply isn't an argument for modifying the rules that holds water.

LOL well the people in our league struggle to finish 9 in 2.5hrs, but your right in your infinite wisdom no one ever play rounds over 3hrs shooting over 100.... keep dreaming.

[David in FL]

well the people in our league struggle to finish 9 in 2.5hrs...

That's the point exactly. Even modifying the rules, your league is sloooow. Rules don't contribute to slow play. Slow players do. Changing the rules doesn't change the pace of play much at all. But that's something that we've also hashed out in several threads, so I won't stray off topic here to do so again in this one.

[Elmer]

It's been proven time, and time again, playing by the real rules doesn't slow pace of play at all. I know 30 hcp golfers that can't break 100 on a good day that play by the rules and can finish 18 holes in well under 3 hours. Pace of play simply isn't an argument for modifying the rules that holds water.

you have never played on my course with my league. We bottle neck atleast once round.

So I will kindly disagree.

Like I said a bunch of blue collar guys, older vets with bad knees, 1 guy who is nearly blind.

And you expect any of them to tee off, walk 200 yards only to find out that after 5 mins of looking they can not find their ball in the fairway ( or other spot), then walk all the way back 200 yards. Bump the group on the tee and hopefully hit a decent tee shot.

Then walk all the way back out 200 yards and hit their 3rd (hopefully straight)!

And this does not slow down the game?

A majority of my league walks the course and the league has only a short window to have the tee reserved for the league. This requires speed up play when possible. We call up the tee on par 3's to move play along.

9 holes in my league is typically 2 to 2.5 hours! Like I said 60 to 70 guys teeing off during a 2 hour period there is a potential for bottle necking!

Then again I have rangers and starters on local courses to tell us to take time saving steps (no lost of distance, 2 putt max, pick up after double bogie) because they have a packed course and want every group moving along. of course this was not on my league course. So it does happen

I never made any comment to justify altering a lie to save a club from damage. What I was pointing out was that in theory moving a ball to a preferred lie and not taking the penalty is simply ignoring the penalty so you can write down a lower score. However on the course if these guys had to take a stroke, they would try to play it, often resulting in a poor shot that would delay play.

Also as I stated before, I think competitive golf and these silly rules are contradictory to that, so I personally would see no point in playing. However if others chose to do so, I don't care. When they try to tell me they shot a 84 I know it's probably closer to 100, but it's no sweat off my back.

I know people who play this way. They use a few mulligans a round, kick wedges and dont count the balls that land OB. They shoot a 110 and tell you it was an 85. I play with people who do this and when they tell me how good of a golfer they are I shrug and mumble OK. I also dont bet or gamble with them on the course. I also dont compare my Offical Handicap to their score, there is no point. They payed their $60 to play a round let them have what ever result they want.

In my league, we do not have 1 single member who shots a 45 (9 over) and writes down a 33 (3 under). Why would his opponent let him?

I think we are confusing recreational and competitive. While recreational can be competitive it is more relaxed. You do know in rec leagues guys drink beers during the round and sometimes more (just like softball leagues), competitive leagues not so much.

But bottom line is- you don’t like the rules others are playing by, don’t play by them or with them!

[saevel25]

It's been proven time, and time again, playing by the real rules doesn't slow pace of play at all. I know 30 hcp golfers that can't break 100 on a good day that play by the rules and can finish 18 holes in well under 3 hours. Pace of play simply isn't an argument for modifying the rules that holds water.

Yep. Especially if the golfers know to use the word "provisional". This will save a lot of time.

[David in FL]

We bottle neck atleast once round. Like I said 60 to 70 guys teeing off during a 2 hour period there is a potential for bottle necking!

Yep, and that's exactly what's causing your league slow play. The rules by which you play have nothing to do with it. Nor will they ever compensate for the overcrowding. BTW, hit that provisional any time you suspect a ball might be OB or lost, and you won't have to make that walk back to the tee. No time lost. But, your league is so bottle necked and slow, that even walking back to the tee once in a blue moon, isn't going to affect the overall pace of play. You'll quickly catch up to that next bottleneck in front of you and will be right back on the same pace you were before.

[ryan772]

Well i hope none of you play best ball or scrambles, cause thats not real golf according to you guys

[jgreen85]

Sounds like a fun event. See the purpose of rules is so that everyone is on a level playing field. They're not recording their scores in GHIN so no foul. They're all playing by the same rules. Preferred lies is fine for recreational golfers. A lot of people play them all the time anyway.

Here's what I'd do, though. When you play your practice rounds, play them by strict rules. Don't play your practice rounds using preferred lies. See it's easy to go from strict rules to preferred lies, but not go the other way without a surprise. However, it is my own experience that I haven't noticed any difference in scoring playing preferred lies or playing the ball where it lies. We play lift and clean here in the spring because of the mucky fairways, but as of June 1 that stops. And right now we're playing off hard pan with some grass growing out of it.

I agree with this. My club uses a "desert rule" during tournament play (desert is a lateral hazard). When I practice, I play USGA rules and treat desert as just desert and typically a ball in to the desert is effectively OB. Shot 82 under the tournament rules, which would've been an ~86 or higher under USGA rules. I won my flight quite easily with those 4 extra strokes. In talking with guys after the tourney most of them play their casual rounds using the desert rule.

[jgreen85]

BTW, hit that provisional any time you suspect a ball might be OB or lost, and you won't have to make that walk back to the tee. No time lost.

I used to disagree with this, but have found it to be true. Also, the provisional is "free practice."

[Elmer]

BTW, hit that provisional any time you suspect a ball might be OB or lost, and you won't have to make that walk back to the tee. No time lost.

The only issue I have is when you start getting all 4 guys on the tee hitting a provisional. If both your balls dont end up in the same spot you are now chasing after 2 balls.

That is sure to speed things up!

[Jon Hoover]

Yep, and that's exactly what's causing your league slow play. The rules by which you play have nothing to do with it. Nor will they ever compensate for the overcrowding.

BTW, hit that provisional any time you suspect a ball might be OB or lost, and you won't have to make that walk back to the tee. No time lost. But, your league is so bottle necked and slow, that even walking back to the tee once in a blue moon, isn't going to affect the overall pace of play. You'll quickly catch up to that next bottleneck in front of you and will be right back on the same pace you were before.

Ya maybe in your make believe perfect world but actually in the real world those thing would slow down an already slow league that struggles as it is to make it in before dark, just last week my partner hit the ball in the rough and was unable to find his ball. By your accounts it wouldn't take anymore time to go back to the tee box and rehit, or are you saying that every time you hit a ball in the rough you should hit a provisional, because that wouldn't take any more time either, by your accounts. In a league that has 2 groups going off each tee and already struggles any of those options will increase time no matter how you look at it, it takes time to hit a provisional, it takes time to pickup a provisional, it takes time to retee, but alas your too blinded by your own convictions to believe that could ever be the case.