Golf Rules Quiz - How well can you do?

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by majorjongles

Be careful though, you need to identify your ball before declaring it unplayable.

Unless you proceed under S&D;

This is incorrect - Decision 18-2a/27:

18-2a/27

Ball Dislodged from Tree; Circumstances in Which Player Not Penalized

Q.A player whose ball is lodged high in a tree wishes to dislodge it by shaking the tree or throwing a club so that he can identify it and proceed under the unplayable ball Rule. Is this permissible?

A.Yes. The player should state his intention before taking such action to avoid any question being raised as to whether a penalty would be incurred under Rule 18-2a.

Edit:  Dormie was writin' while I was still readin'.  I knew I'd read that decision before, just took me a few minutes to find it again.

[Rulesman]

Dormie

What about the situation where the player is 'sure' the ball is in the tree but either can't see it or can see more than one unidentified ball?

When the dislodged ball(s) arrives at his feet, what is his reference point?

[Dormie1360]

Dormie

What about the situation where the player is 'sure' the ball is in the tree but either can't see it or can see more than one unidentified ball?

When the dislodged ball(s) arrives at his feet, what is his reference point?

Good question.  As far as determining a reference point it would seem logical  that a player would have to see "a" ball before proceeding.

I think the purpose of the decision is to allow a player the ability to announce or declare ahead of time his intention of proceeding under R28 (unplayable), and move "a" ball without first identifying it. This procedure avoids a penalty under R18-2 (ball at rest moved) if the ball is his, but then commits the player to R28.

[Rulesman]

Good question.  As far as determining a reference point it would seem logical  that a player would have to see "a" ball before proceeding.

I think the purpose of the decision is to allow a player the ability to announce or declare ahead of time his intention of proceeding under R28 (unplayable), and move "a" ball without first identifying it. This procedure avoids a penalty under R18-2 (ball at rest moved) if the ball is his, but then commits the player to R28.

But only able to use 28a

[Dormie1360]

I'm not following.  If the player were going to proceed under 28a, why the necessity for even trying to knock "a" ball out of the tree for identification?  What is the point of decision 18-2a/27 then?

28/11

Ball Unplayable in Tree and Player Opts to Drop Within Two Club-Lengths

Q. A player's ball is eight feet off the ground, lodged in a tree. The player deems the ball unplayable. May the player proceed under option c of Rule 28 which permits him to drop a ball within two club-lengths of where his ball lay unplayable?

A. Yes. The player would be entitled to drop a ball within two club-lengths of the point on the ground immediately below the place where the ball lay in the tree. In some instances this may allow the player to drop a ball on a putting green.

[Rulesman]

I have always assumed that the position of 'a' ball was known and that therefore the point on the ground immediately below was easily determined. If the ball the player wishes to identify cannot be seen, the reference point is not known and therefore 28b & c cannot be used.

Neither of the decisions specify which options are available but the rule seemingly has no provision for an estimated point. IMO 28/1 reinforces my view.

[Dormie1360]

I have always assumed that the position of 'a' ball was known and that therefore the point on the ground immediately below was easily determined. If the ball the player wishes to identify cannot be seen, the reference point is not known and therefore 28b & c cannot be used.

Neither of the decisions specify which options are available but the rule seemingly has no provision for an estimated point. IMO 28/1 reinforces my view.

Ok, I don't disagree with that.  I "think" we agree that a ball must first be seen (in order to apply anything other than 28a), therefore it's position in the tree is known.

The player may declare the ball unplayable without identifying.

Unless he does identify it as his, by whatever means (including throwing a club at it), his only option is R28a.

If the ball is his, he may proceed under 28c, using the point on the ground directly below where the ball lay in the tree.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rulesman

I have always assumed that the position of 'a' ball was known and that therefore the point on the ground immediately below was easily determined. If the ball the player wishes to identify cannot be seen, the reference point is not known and therefore 28b & c cannot be used.

Neither of the decisions specify which options are available but the rule seemingly has no provision for an estimated point. IMO 28/1 reinforces my view.

Ok, I don't disagree with that.  I "think" we agree that a ball must first be seen (in order to apply anything other than 28a), therefore it's position in the tree is known.

The player may declare the ball unplayable without identifying.

Unless he does identify it as his, by whatever means (including throwing a club at it), his only option is R28a.

If the ball is his, he may proceed under 28c, using the point on the ground directly below where the ball lay in the tree.

If the ball is never identified then Rule 28 is out the window anyway and Rule 27 is in force.  Same penalty, just a different notation in the records.

[ColinL]

If the ball is never identified then Rule 28 is out the window anyway and Rule 27 is in force.  Same penalty, just a different notation in the records.

Not quite.  See Decision 28/1

http://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-decisions.html#!decision-28,d28-1

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

If the ball is never identified then Rule 28 is out the window anyway and Rule 27 is in force.  Same penalty, just a different notation in the records.

Not quite.  See Decision 28/1

http://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-decisions.html#!decision-28,d28-1

Except that in the case of that decision, the player knows more or less where the ball is, he has just chosen not to look for it.  In the case of a ball being seen in a tree which can't be identified, the player doesn't really know if that is his ball, or if his ball is actually even in that tree.  It could literally be anywhere, thus his ball is lost, not unplayable.

The case as I interpret is that in one scenario, the ball is declared unplayable without going forward to look, while in the other the player has searched without finding a ball that he could identify, thus his ball is lost, not unplayable.  I realize that it's a technicality, but it does bring a different rule into play.

[ColinL]

Except that in the case of that decision, the player knows more or less where the ball is, he has just chosen not to look for it.  In the case of a ball being seen in a tree which can't be identified, the player doesn't really know if that is his ball, or if his ball is actually even in that tree.  It could literally be anywhere, thus his ball is lost, not unplayable.

The case as I interpret is that in one scenario, the ball is declared unplayable without going forward to look, while in the other the player has searched without finding a ball that he could identify, thus his ball is lost, not unplayable.  I realize that it's a technicality, but it does bring a different rule into play.

[Dormie1360]

Colin let me ask you this.  When a player announces his intentions to play under R28, he is protected against a breach of R18.  So, if he announces R28a and then kicks his previously unseen ball, there is no penalty under R18.

If the player does not declare under R28a, but R27-1 and then kicks his unseen ball........would there not be a penalty under R18?

[ColinL]

Colin let me ask you this.  When a player announces his intentions to play under R28, he is protected against a breach of R18.  So, if he announces R28a and then kicks his previously unseen ball, there is no penalty under R18.

If the player does not declare under R28a, but R27-1 and then kicks his unseen ball........would there not be a penalty under R18?

Yes, that's right - and helpful.  It is the essence of deeming the ball in the tree unplayable before chucking a club at it.  I hadn't really thought it through to other close encounters, thinking more of the long distance effort - the deep canyon of D28/1 and a particular area of deep stuff on my course which just seems to be in exactly the right place for one of my errant drives.

[Martyn W]

Dormie

What about the situation where the player is 'sure' the ball is in the tree but either can't see it or can see more than one unidentified ball?

When the dislodged ball(s) arrives at his feet, what is his reference point?

I would say that 20-2b applies

Where to Drop

When a ball is to be dropped as near as possible to a specific spot, it must be dropped not nearer the hole than the specific spot which, if it is not precisely known to the player, must be estimated.

[Rulesman]

I would say that 20-2b applies

Where to Drop

When a ball is to be dropped as near as possible to a specific spot, it must be dropped not nearer the holethan the specific spot which, if it is not precisely known to the player, must be estimated.

Sounds reasonable.

[ElWagonne]

Not bad, missed 3 & 7.  Forgot that your partner can't touch the spot, but can hover over a spot to indicate a line.

[WUTiger]

At every stop on this summer's amateur circuit, the starter reviewed with us at least one unusual  condition for hazards, unplayable lies, or ground under repair.

Last week:

• The host club played the right-side fence bounding the first hole as a red-paint hazard (drop with one stroke penalty where ball crossed fence). We played it as an OB. I was overly cautious, and avoided trouble by pulling my drive into the left treeline.
• The course had turf patches of winter damage called brownout. The turf was brown and shaggy, and bounced off the mower blades rather than getting cut. Sometimes, little ruts were under the fluff, entrapping your ball. This was a free drop, no closer to hole. Trouble was, brownout was a bit difficult to determine if you were in the shade under the trees.

The pine cone in the bunker reminded me of the banana peel in the bunker at a tour event a few years back. The sponsors provided fresh fruit for players at the turn. One buy opts for a banana, and casually tossed shin into a greenside bunker before he putts out on No. 10.

You guessed it, a player from the next group hits an approach right on top of the banana peel, and then has to blast through the yellow peel on his bunker shot. (To avoid penalty). The shot barely makes it onto the green.

Needless to say, the follow-on player tracked down banana-man after the round, and the two had a highly unpleasant encounter.

[pumaAttack]

7/12

Mainly didn't know there were so many 2 stroke penalties and also penalized people unfairly it seems.  haha.