The Definitive Pace of Play Thread

[Dave2512]

Lol Park Hill.

Not sure how that is on topic, please try to stick with the thread.

Park Hill is 6500 yards, and plays 4:30.   What is the problem?

Look at the scorecard. They list the POP for the first two holes at 20 minutes each. Every other hole significantly less. Something is wrong there 20 minutes a hole is crazy. POP there should be less than 4:30. Which by the way is like the minimum speed limit. Park Hill is slow because it's a) a very busy city course and b) poorly managed. It's not a good case for how golf should be played.

[pumaAttack]

You will have to show me where anyone said that they had a problem with anyone who keeps up with the group in front of them.  If they still screw around when they should be leaving the green, then yeah, I'll have an issue with them, because they still don't have the right to make me wait in the fairway while they fiddle around for no good reason.  If they keep up and move out promptly when play allows it, that's all that can be asked of them.  If they screw around just so they can hit the course pace on the nose, then they are a problem regardless of whether or not they do finish within the posted limits.

I showed you a scorecard saying their own pace of play is 4:30 and you laughed it off.  You have no respect for posted pace of play and expect people to keep up with you.  Your rules, right buddy!

I am pretty sure what happens in this thread is that people paint the image of whatever group was egregiously slow the last time they were out on the avatar of anybody who simply thinks that perhaps golf is also about enjoying a day outside, and stopping for a second to look at a bird down by the creek, or to enjoy a flower, or a fox running down the edge of the fairway, or whatever is not a sin.

If I am playing in a foursome and the group in front of us is keeping a 3:15 pace, then it's see ya later! If a group comes up behind me, it's let 'em through! I am never going to play a 3:15 pace in a foursome. Playing alone walking I may play 18 a little under three hours, but otherwise, no, sorry. Golf is about a lot of things. Of course I do avoid busy times. I never play on Saturday or Sunday before 2 p.m. Because I know this about myself. I never play busy courses because I know this about myself.

I have been saying this, and others, and we each been repeatedly told we are the only ones who feel this way! I think they don't even have enough empathy to hear your argument.  Golf is about sharing a course. Both sides need to have regard for the other point of view.

Thank you!  I am glad we agree on that.  People only seem to care about themselves and can't put themselves into the FootJoys of others.

Sure I do.  You think its ok to play at whatever pace you are comfortable with, and who cares what the others want.

You may need to go back and read my posts, it will help you.  I am advocating for both groups here.

Lol Park Hill.

Look at the scorecard. They list the POP for the first two holes at 20 minutes each. Every other hole significantly less. Something is wrong there 20 minutes a hole is crazy. POP there should be less than 4:30. Which by the way is like the minimum speed limit. Park Hill is slow because it's a) a very busy city course and b) poorly managed. It's not a good case for how golf should be played.

The first two holes are a long par 5 and a long par 4.  They often take that long, no problem.  Park Hill is pretty typical for a public golf course in Denver.

Yet, you Dave, get to re-write their own pace of play limits because you personally think you can go faster.  You honestly don't see the problem here??

Gotta love the SandTrap mentality, show them something that goes against their own mentality and they get to laugh it off as irrelevant.  Good discourse here, Dave.

[Moppy]

Sure I do.  You think its ok to play at whatever pace you are comfortable with, and who cares what the others want.

That's not really what he said, but I guess you would need to have some level of consideration for others to even notice that.

[newtogolf]

I showed you a scorecard saying their own pace of play is 4:30 and you laughed it off.  You have no respect for posted pace of play and expect people to keep up with you.  Your rules, right buddy!

Thank you!  I am glad we agree on that.  People only seem to care about themselves and can't put themselves into the FootJoys of others.

You may need to go back and read my posts, it will help you.  I am advocating for both groups here.

The first two holes are a long par 5 and a long par 4.  They often take that long, no problem.  Park Hill is pretty typical for a public golf course in Denver.

Yet, you Dave, get to re-write their own pace of play limits because you personally think you can go faster.  You honestly don't see the problem here??

One simple question.  If you're on a one lane road with a posted speed limit of 45 mph, the roads wide open and the car in front of you is going 45 mph are you okay with driving the next 4 hours behind them at 45 mph?

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Taking 4½ hours to play Park Hill should be a punishable offense.  Essentially dead flat with no significant obstacles to play - a few trees, a dozen bunkers.  There's like one water hazard on the course and it barely comes into play.  That is definitely not a good example to support your cause.

And your handicap is at least 5 strokes better than mine, so what's your point?

It is actually a perfect example...

You have 100% unrealistic expectations for pace of play.  You just admitted its an easy course, which it is, and yet you think their own pace of play is wrong.  I think they know better than you do what a normal round should take.  So if Park Hill is easy and THEY say it should take 4:30, why would a golfer rush to finish a harder course in 3:30??

My point is that high handicap golfers can feel pressured by fast/skilled players.  That can lead to stress and anxiety that makes them stay away from golf.   Just because you don't feel that does not mean others don't.  Those golfers, not me, should not have to feel rushed to keep up with a pro level handicap who is going an hour faster than the courses own recommended pace of play.

What makes you think that the 4:30 they post has any bearing on reality?  Park Hill is the worst course in the Denver city system, then they pluck a number out of the air and you take it as being meaningful?  Use your head.

Foothills has a posted pace of 2:10 per 9 holes on the 18 hole course, and that's too long for a significantly more difficult course than Park Hill.  Heck, Fox Hollow is 4:30 (Canyon - Meadow), and even that is too long for a more difficult course than either of the others.

[pumaAttack]

If you're on a one lane road with a posted speed limit of 45 mph, the roads wide open and the car in front of you is going 45 mph are you okay with driving the next 4 hours behind them at 45 mph?

Yes, I am.  That is the posted speed limit.

Why do I get to break the rules just because I think I can go faster.

I bet the highway did research and posted that speed limit at 45MPH for a reason.  Maybe there are animal crossings, driveways, schools, etc. during that stretch of road.

[Moppy]

If you're on a one lane road with a posted speed limit of 45 mph, the roads wide open and the car in front of you is going 45 mph are you okay with driving the next 4 hours behind them at 45 mph?

That depends on whether the road in front of that car is filled up or not. If he ever said he wouldn't let anybody play through, I will stop defending him. I haven't read this entire thread.

I play with people that I sometimes have to implore to let a party behind us play through. I play with them because they have been friends for 30 years, but I would NEVER defend their behavior on this forum. And I try to change it.

[newtogolf]

That depends on whether the road in front of that car is filled up or not. If he ever said he wouldn't let anybody play through, I will stop defending him. I haven't read this entire thread.

I play with people that I sometimes have to implore to let a party behind us play through. I play with them because they have been friends for 30 years, but I would NEVER defend their behavior on this forum. And I try to change it.

I said in the post, the road in front is wide open.

Yes, I am.  That is the posted speed limit.

Why do I get to break the rules just because I think I can go faster.

I bet the highway did research and posted that speed limit at 45MPH for a reason.  Maybe there are animal crossings, driveways, schools, etc. during that stretch of road.

So now you're saying you never go faster than the posted speed limit?

[pumaAttack]

What makes you think that the 4:30 they post has any bearing on reality?  Park Hill is the worst course in the Denver city system, then they pluck a number out of the air and you take it as being meaningful?  Use your head.

Foothills has a posted pace of 2:10 per 9 holes on the 18 hole course, and that's too long for a significantly more difficult course than Park Hill.  Heck, Fox Hollow is 4:30 (Canyon - Meadow), and even that is too long for a more difficult course than either of the others.

Oh again, you are more right than the course itself.

Please @Fourputt , post the recommended pace of play times for all Denver Courses.   You are the master.  Use your head, you are not the law here.

[Dave2512]

Yet, you Dave, get to re-write their own pace of play limits because you personally think you can go faster.  You honestly don't see the problem here??

Gotta love the SandTrap mentality, show them something that goes against their own mentality and they get to laugh it off as irrelevant.  Good discourse here, Dave.

No I don't. I wouldn't play there for free, it's not a good course and if you play there you are accustomed to slow play. That course is arguably the worst course in the metro area, horrible reputation.

[Moppy]

I said in the post, the road in front is wide open.

So now you're saying you never go faster than the posted speed limit?

If he is from Quebec, I am calling BS. Based on my experience with them around here anyways.

[pumaAttack]

I said in the post, the road in front is wide open.

So now you're saying you never go faster than the posted speed limit?

Ha, nope, I do not.

Sorry, should I be a rebel and break the law like you do?

Didn't know you ran thousands of research data and determined the safest speed for the cars traveling that road.

[dkolo]

I said in the post, the road in front is wide open.

So now you're saying you never go faster than the posted speed limit?

This was a bad analogy. 45 mph minimum speed with a limit of 65 would have made more sense. Yes, technically it's OK to drive that slow, but you're out of the norm and inconveniencing everyone behind you.

[pumaAttack]

No I don't. I wouldn't play there for free, it's not a good course and if you play there you are accustomed to slow play. That course is arguably the worst course in the metro area, horrible reputation.

That is not the point at all.  But thanks for skimming over it.  You get to ignore a lot of things in life, eh?

If he is from Quebec, I am calling BS. Based on my experience with them around here anyways.

Ha, I wish I were from Quebec.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by newtogolf

If you're on a one lane road with a posted speed limit of 45 mph, the roads wide open and the car in front of you is going 45 mph are you okay with driving the next 4 hours behind them at 45 mph?

That depends on whether the road in front of that car is filled up or not. If he ever said he wouldn't let anybody play through, I will stop defending him. I haven't read this entire thread.

I play with people that I sometimes have to implore to let a party behind us play through. I play with them because they have been friends for 30 years, but I would NEVER defend their behavior on this forum. And I try to change it.

And yet you side with Puma who feels that it's okay to take 4:30 just because it's posted in the pro shop, never mind that they never looked at a statistic or analyzed anything to come up with that number.  He seems to feel that it's okay for any group to take that much time even if they aren't keeping up with the flow on the course just because it's posted, even if in order to do so they stand around yakking while the group behind them waits.

[Moppy]

This was a bad analogy. 45 mph minimum speed with a limit of 65 would have made more sense. Yes, technically it's OK to drive that slow, but you're out of the norm and inconveniencing everyone behind you.

exactly.

I would like to hear whether @ pumaAttack lets players behind him through. If he does, your analogy doesn't matter.

[dkolo]

exactly.

I would like to hear whether @pumaAttack lets players behind him through. If he does, your analogy doesn't matter.

Having to let players through isn't "free" time-wise, it's just a lesser evil than keeping the group stuck behind you. And if you're the slowest person by a significant margin, you're going to have to do it a few times.

[Moppy]

And yet you side with Puma who feels that it's okay to take 4:30 just because it's posted in the pro shop, never mind that they never looked at a statistic or analyzed anything to come up with that number.  He seems to feel that it's okay for any group to take that much time even if they aren't keeping up with the flow on the course just because it's posted, even if in order to do so they stand around yakking while the group behind them waits.

No, I am frustrated as anybody with people who just can't seem to drag themselves out of the golf cart to tee off, or who wait for a group 270 yards out when they maybe hit one that far one time after a three week drought and they caught the cart path. But I just don't agree that one needs to keep one's nose to the grindstone every second on the course. That's not recreation, that's work.