Hard to hit clubs

[jcjim]

I've got the idea that players think that if they play "hard to hit clubs" their games will get better. Many times it's been asked if I go from a game improvement iron to a players iron will their game get better or they automatically think they will get better.

My take on it is whatever game improvement iron you play there are many players playing to single digits or even scratch golf with just those clubs. What's your take on this?

[newtogolf]

The thought process is less forgiving irons will provide more feedback on your swing and ball contact.  SGI / GI irons are designed for maximum forgiveness and do a good job in covering up for ball contact that varies across the club face.  A club with little or no cavity will feel harsher in your hands when you hit the ball near the heel or toe and you will be penalized more in terms of distance.

Players irons also typically have a smaller head with less offset so if you can reach a point where you hit them well, it's likely you will hit a GI / SGI iron better as well.  You want irons that you like to look down on, you can hit different shot shapes with while giving you maximum forgiveness.

As for what you take out on the course, I'd suggest you take whatever club allows you to score the lowest.  A lot of good players and pro's use GI irons, so I think it's a personal preference.

[Lihu]

Take the easiest to use club on the course, and the hardest to use club when training? Not sure if this is best or not, but it sure feels sweet when you catch one just right while practicing.

[David in FL]

I love it when less skilled players play less forgiving clubs. It makes it so much easier to beat them! ;-) FWIW, many (most?) tour players play some version of cavity back irons these days.

[Kenny Lee]

I play AP2's.

But I occasionally practice with a Mizuno MP-4.

[tefunk]

I played the MP-33 for a year. For me, the logic was to become a better and more consistent ball striker... But I realized it would take a lot of effort, and my scores would suffer in the meantime. My game did improve quite a bit, and I became a much better iron player. I do not currently play blades, as I get better, more consistent, results from my MP-52. From personal experience, a blade style iron can help someone become a better player. However, it doesn't necessarily mean it's the best iron for that person. Along the lines of Lihu's comment, for me it was used as a training tool to make me better.

[WUTiger]

... As for what you take out on the course, I'd suggest you take whatever club allows you to score the lowest.  A lot of good players and pro's use GI irons, so I think it's a personal preference.

As a teaching pro once told me, get clubs for the swing you have today, not the one you hope to have next year.

[jcjim]

As a teaching pro once told me, get clubs for the swing you have today, not the one you hope to have next year.

Very good advice

[Club Rat]

I've got the idea that players think that if they play "hard to hit clubs" their games will get better.

Most players end up getting rid of "hard to hit clubs" or they end up in the basement.

Many times it's been asked if I go from a game improvement iron to a players iron will their game get better or they automatically think they will get better.

It depends on the skill level of a player.

Quote:

My take on it is whatever game improvement iron you play there are many players playing to single digits or even scratch golf with just those clubs.

Single digit and scratch players usually can play any clubs. It's a matter of preference or choice and usually comes done to costs or loyalty to a brand.

Club manufactures for years have designed clubs for various abilities.

Define your statement, which you consider "Hard to Hit Clubs" ?

My thoughts; a person would need time to improve, take lessons, practice.

Then possibly, they may not have as much as a problem hitting clubs which they have struggled with.

Could they hit other brands or clubs better than others?

Only as their skill level improves.

As the old saying goes - You can buy better equipment, but can you buy a better game with new equipment?

Club Rat

[Dapadre]

Interesting as I have had some experience with this and would like to share this. I played GI and SGI for years. Some years ago my pro who also happens to be a good friend, when I asked him how I could improve my ball striking said, play a (Players Iron)good forged cavity backed iron. Forged for the feel, while the Cb would provide just enough forgiveness. His take with the GI and mainly SGI is that they mask and put a band-aid on your swing flaws. The SGI/GI made now are more extreme then years past. Their main objective is get the ball airborne with high MOI. Hence you dont feel where you are striking and thus cant really improve. His main caution though, make sure you get fitted.

I went and got some players irons (AMP forged and J33 CB). Had the lies fitted to my specs and off I went. The first couple of driving range sessions were hell, but I soon got into the groove. Along with lessons, I was making great contact. What I loved was the forged feel but most importantly I could feel exactly where I was hitting on the face.

As my game improved, I went back to the GI irons I had. My thinking was since my striking was better I could take advantage of the GI MOI and tech. Funny thing was initially the striking would be great, but after a while it would go stagnant and even get worse. I did this like 3 times before coming to the conclusion, that the GI/SGI were indeed band-aids. After a while even with a good swing you get complacent and since you cant really feel where you are striking the ball, you fall into your old habits.

I gave the exact advice to my best friend who was playing Callaways SGIs, he bought some Mizzys and though initially had issues, within a couple of months he was breaking 90 on a regular basis and he swears to never go back. Player irons FORCE you to make good contact. The one caveat is you must be willing to put in the time.

My iron play, is the strongest part of my game and I believe its because of this. My issue is driving ( hit it far enough 260/270 but irratic), short game and puting which is sporadic. But my iron play is solid. I have played with scratch players who have said my striking is beter then theirs, but will need to work on the rest.

Just my experience..............everyone is different.

[newtogolf]

Ans.  I was  basing this thread on people that play GI clubs and want to move up to players irons say AP2's or any of the forged players irons...The idea that harder to hit clubs would automatically bring their games to a higher level. There seems that many players have posted how the players irons have brought their games to the next level. I guess I'm trying to say it's the indian not the arrow.Just owning the harder to hit irons doesn't mean you will play better and very well may play worse.

You last "as the old saying"  etc. pretty well hits the nail...It's the swing and knowing how to play!

Most would consider AP2 more in the GI range of clubs, their MPF is similar to the Ping I25, Mizuno EZ Forged and Callaway XR Pro.  Titleist MB, Mizuno MP-5 would be players irons / blades.

[dbuck]

I am a bogey golfer and I play blades (mostly) and wooden woods.

I play cavities and metal heads in shambles. I am  just slightly better than bogey with either style of club. I don't play blades and lumber because they make me better, I just enjoy the feel and sounds.

I don't think blades "make" you better unless you get better. There is more feedback though, and my precision can slack off a tad with cavities if I play them exclusively for a while and I won't know it, until I pick up a blade and it will tell me instantly.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcjim

Ans.  I was  basing this thread on people that play GI clubs and want to move up to players irons say AP2's or any of the forged players irons...The idea that harder to hit clubs would automatically bring their games to a higher level. There seems that many players have posted how the players irons have brought their games to the next level. I guess I'm trying to say it's the indian not the arrow.Just owning the harder to hit irons doesn't mean you will play better and very well may play worse.

You last "as the old saying"  etc. pretty well hits the nail...It's the swing and knowing how to play!

Most would consider AP2 more in the GI range of clubs, their MPF is similar to the Ping I25, Mizuno EZ Forged and Callaway XR Pro.  Titleist MB, Mizuno MP-5 would be players irons / blades.

I got this wrong before, but I think AP2 is more like the S56, MP-54?

I tested some Titleist that was exactly like the MP-54 in every way, except not as "buttery".

[newtogolf]

I got this wrong before, but I think AP2 is more like the S56, MP-54?

I tested some Titleist that was exactly like the MP-54 in every way, except not as "buttery".

If you look at MPF, it's more like the clubs I mentioned. http://ralphmaltby.com/golf-head-ratings/

[jcjim]

Most would consider AP2 more in the GI range of clubs, their MPF is similar to the Ping I25, Mizuno EZ Forged and Callaway XR Pro.  Titleist MB, Mizuno MP-5 would be players irons / blades.

Sure some would consider those to be GI but many that play SGI's, would consider those be players irons...I think M. Breed on the golf channel plays the AP2's, at least those are the ones he's hitting on TV

I.'m thinking many more better players play AP2's or the equivalent than blades. What do you think

[Lihu]

My I20 are much easier to hit than my MP52, I subjectively think AP2 are similar to mp54.

[tefunk]

I.'m thinking many more better players play AP2's or the equivalent than blades. What do you think

I agree, in fact it's pretty rare that any of them (if any) are playing a true blade. They're all playing some form of muscle back, or cavity back. In my opinion, the AP2 actually has a pretty good amount of forgiving properties for a "players" iron. There are really two perspectives on this topic, and I agree with both. - play the club that is best suited for your game/score (regardless if it's SGI, GI, or Players). - if you want to become a better, more consistent, ball striker... Using a players iron "could" help to achieve that (a commitment to practice and improving the swing would be a must going this route). Both in the end could ultimately lead one to becoming a better golfer

[newtogolf]

Sure some would consider those to be GI but many that play SGI's, would consider those be players irons...I think M. Breed on the golf channel plays the AP2's, at least those are the ones he's hitting on TV

I.'m thinking many more better players play AP2's or the equivalent than blades. What do you think

Looking at Titleist's website, it appears the CB and CB / MB Combo is the most popular followed closely by the AP 2 I'd agree that many of the most familiar names use the AP 2.  Here's how the irons break down for the Titleist sponsored players, as you can see a lot play the CB and MB irons.

AP2	CB	MB	CB / MB Combo
Jordan Spieth	Brooks Koepka	Jimmy Walker	Charlie Hoffman
Zach Johnson	Bernd Wiesberger	Byeong-Hun An	Mark Leishman
Adam Scott	Robert Streb	Matt Jones	Cameron Tringale
Bill Haas	Ian Poulter	Alexander Levy	Graham Delaet
Kevin Na	Scott Piercy	Rafael Cabrera Bello	Patton Kizzire
Victor Dubuisson	Thongchai Jaidee	Morgan Hoffman	Geoff Ogilvy
Jason Bohn	Ben Martin	Gary Stal	Kyung-Tae Kim
Cameron Smith	George Coetzee	Chesson Hadley	Gregory Bourdy
Jason Dufner	Justin Thomas	Erik Compton	Wade Ormsby
Brendon De Jonge	Tim Clark	Robert Karlsson
Steve Stricker	Lee Slattery	Andrew Johnson
Maximilian Kieffer	Andrew Dodt	Jean Hugo
Scott Stallings	Bryce Moulder	John Peterson
Joachin Hansen	Danie Van Tonder
Jose Lima	Peter Uihlein
Michael Hoey	Greg Chalmers
Dudley Hart	Blayne Barber
Ben Crane	Tom Gillis
Peter Malnati	Dong Hwan Lee
Martin Flores