Hard to hit clubs

[newtogolf]

My I20 are much easier to hit than my MP52, I subjectively think AP2 are similar to mp54.

That's based on your experience, but if you consider MPF as a specification, you're wrong, MP 54 is much less forgiving than an AP2.

[Lihu]

[QUOTE name="Lihu" url="/t/84552/hard-to-hit-clubs/0_30#post_1202799"] My I20 are much easier to hit than my MP52, I subjectively think AP2 are similar to mp54.[/QUOTE] That's based on your experience, but if you consider MPF as a specification, you're wrong, MP 54 is much less forgiving than an AP2.

That may be partly because I practice with blades. I still think the i25/20 are easier to hit than the AP2, though. I get much tighter dispersions than on a players iron. I'll get a used AP2 6i and try it out.

[Golfingdad]

Looking at Titleist's website, it appears the CB and CB / MB Combo is the most popular followed closely by the AP 2 I'd agree that many of the most familiar names use the AP 2.  Here's how the irons break down for the Titleist sponsored players, as you can see a lot play the CB and MB irons.

AP2

CB

MB

CB / MB Combo

Jordan Spieth

Brooks Koepka

Jimmy Walker

Charlie Hoffman

Zach Johnson

Bernd Wiesberger

Byeong-Hun An

Mark Leishman

Adam Scott

Robert Streb

Matt Jones

Cameron Tringale

Bill Haas

Ian Poulter

Alexander Levy

Graham Delaet

Kevin Na

Scott Piercy

Rafael Cabrera Bello

Patton Kizzire

Victor Dubuisson

Thongchai Jaidee

Morgan Hoffman

Geoff Ogilvy

Jason Bohn

Ben Martin

Gary Stal

Kyung-Tae Kim

Cameron Smith

George Coetzee

Chesson Hadley

Gregory Bourdy

Jason Dufner

Justin Thomas

Erik Compton

Wade Ormsby

Brendon De Jonge

Tim Clark

Robert Karlsson

Steve Stricker

Lee Slattery

Andrew Johnson

Maximilian Kieffer

Andrew Dodt

Jean Hugo

Scott Stallings

Bryce Moulder

John Peterson

Joachin Hansen

Danie Van Tonder

Jose Lima

Peter Uihlein

Michael Hoey

Greg Chalmers

Dudley Hart

Blayne Barber

Ben Crane

Tom Gillis

Peter Malnati

Dong Hwan Lee

Martin Flores

Jose Lima???

I was gonna say he looks more like an MB guy ... but it says "AP" right on that photo there, so ... :)

---

Seriously though ... if one wanted to, one could (erroneously perhaps) draw some conclusions about which irons those guys all SHOULD be playing based on the breakdown in your list there.  A lot more of the top guys seem to be concentrated on the AP2 list than the others.

And of course, extrapolate from there down to us lowly amateurs.

[newtogolf]

That may be partly because I practice with blades.

I still think the i25/20 are easier to hit than the AP2, though. I get much tighter dispersions than on a players iron. I'll get a used AP2 6i and try it out.

Ping i25 has MPF of 512

Ping i20 has MPF of 459

AP2 714 has MPF of 517

AP2 712 has MPF of 504

AP2 710 has MPF of 548

[newtogolf]

Seriously though ... if one wanted to, one could (erroneously perhaps) draw some conclusions about which irons those guys all SHOULD be playing based on the breakdown in your list there.  A lot more of the top guys seem to be concentrated on the AP2 list than the others.

And of course, extrapolate from there down to us lowly amateurs.

Again, depending on how much value you want to place in MPF, the 714 CB has an MPF 494 which isn't far off from the 714 AP2 MPF of 517.  The 714 MB has an MPF of 321 so by the MPF scale, it's much less forgiving.   My guess is those that play the AP2's and CB's wouldn't see much difference if they swapped.

[Golfingdad]

Ping i25 has MPF of 512

Ping i20 has MPF of 459

AP2 714 has MPF of 517

AP2 712 has MPF of 504

AP2 710 has MPF of 548

Interesting that i20s are generally less playable than AP2s according to that scale.  I wouldn't have thunk that. :P

Again, depending on how much value you want to place in MPF, the 714 CB has an MPF 494 which isn't far off from the 714 AP2 MPF of 517.  The 714 MB has an MPF of 321 so by the MPF scale, it's much less forgiving.   My guess is those that play the AP2's and CB's wouldn't see much difference if they swapped.

Yeah, I was mostly just having a little fun.  I agree that we wouldn't see much difference.  As an example, when Adam Scott was winning tournaments like the US Masters and Australian Masters (yo, British people, see what I did there??? ) he had MBs in the bag.

[jcjim]

Looking at Titleist's website, it appears the CB and CB / MB Combo is the most popular followed closely by the AP 2 I'd agree that many of the most familiar names use the AP 2.  Here's how the irons break down for the Titleist sponsored players, as you can see a lot play the CB and MB irons.

AP2

CB

MB

CB / MB Combo

Jordan Spieth

Brooks Koepka

Jimmy Walker

Charlie Hoffman

Zach Johnson

Bernd Wiesberger

Byeong-Hun An

Mark Leishman

Adam Scott

Robert Streb

Matt Jones

Cameron Tringale

Bill Haas

Ian Poulter

Alexander Levy

Graham Delaet

Kevin Na

Scott Piercy

Rafael Cabrera Bello

Patton Kizzire

Victor Dubuisson

Thongchai Jaidee

Morgan Hoffman

Geoff Ogilvy

Jason Bohn

Ben Martin

Gary Stal

Kyung-Tae Kim

Cameron Smith

George Coetzee

Chesson Hadley

Gregory Bourdy

Jason Dufner

Justin Thomas

Erik Compton

Wade Ormsby

Brendon De Jonge

Tim Clark

Robert Karlsson

Steve Stricker

Lee Slattery

Andrew Johnson

Maximilian Kieffer

Andrew Dodt

Jean Hugo

Scott Stallings

Bryce Moulder

John Peterson

Joachin Hansen

Danie Van Tonder

Jose Lima

Peter Uihlein

Michael Hoey

Greg Chalmers

Dudley Hart

Blayne Barber

Ben Crane

Tom Gillis

Peter Malnati

Dong Hwan Lee

Martin Flores

That's interesting for the tour...I might have guessed differently

[newtogolf]

That's interesting for the tour...I might have guessed differently

I'm sure they vary over the season and when new models get released.  As @Golfingdad Scott was playing MB's a few years back.

[jcjim]

I remember some years back another forum had a big discussion on the MPF. Some knew exactly what the MPF was and the consensus was the final average that's been posted can be skewed and the other numbers, [that nobody pays attention to] is really the key in determining forgivness. The problem is very few can make out these numbers.

I played years back with a mixed set of Titleist 962's The 962 B's were the players club and a lot less forgiving than the 962"s. yet the MPF was higher for the 962B's that was impossible I know I played them. So that's what can happen when you don't know the facts in how to figure out the MPF.

[Dave2512]

MPF in the 500's or less I'll pass. There are players irons rated higher than that . I like my mishits to be close to the intended target not 50 yards short. Couple points can be huge. My 5-6 rated at 619 and 7-PW 613 and the long irons I replaced with the more forgiving clubs much harder to hit clean consistently.

[Golfingdad]

MPF in the 500's or less I'll pass. There are players irons rated higher than that . I like my mishits to be close to the intended target not 50 yards short.

Couple points can be huge. My 5-6 rated at 619 and 7-PW 613 and the long irons I replaced with the more forgiving clubs much harder to hit clean consistently.

That's why I have the i20s - all kinds of help provided on my many mishits - and also why I'm surprised at its relatively low rating.

[Dave2512]

I think sub 500 is considered "conventional". I dont know the ins and outs of mpf rattings but some are surprising. As much time as I spend inbad spots I need forgiving.

[RGoosen]

That's why I have the i20s - all kinds of help provided on my many mishits - and also why I'm surprised at its relatively low rating.

I agree with you I played with the i20's for the last 3 years and found them easy to hit. To answer the original question...after playing blades and game improvement irons I find it easy to hit the sweet spot in a game improvement iron with a smaller clubface. I lose concentration when the iron clubface is gigantic.

[onthehunt526]

I'd be interested to find out what my irons are but there is almost no information on it...

[Lihu]

[QUOTE name="newtogolf" url="/t/84552/hard-to-hit-clubs/0_30#post_1202823"]   Ping i25 has MPF of 512 Ping i20 has MPF of 459 AP2 714 has MPF of 517 AP2 712 has MPF of 504 AP2 710 has MPF of 548 [/QUOTE] Interesting that i20s are generally less playable than AP2s according to that scale.  I wouldn't have thunk that. :P [QUOTE name="newtogolf" url="/t/84552/hard-to-hit-clubs/0_30#post_1202824"]   Again, depending on how much value you want to place in MPF, the 714 CB has an MPF 494 which isn't far off from the 714 AP2 MPF of 517.  The 714 MB has an MPF of 321 so by the MPF scale, it's much less forgiving.   My guess is those that play the AP2's and CB's wouldn't see much difference if they swapped. [/QUOTE] Yeah, I was mostly just having a little fun.  I agree that we wouldn't see much difference.  As an example, when Adam Scott was winning tournaments like the US Masters and Australian Masters (yo, British people, see what I did there??? ;-) ) he had MBs in the bag.

More interesting that the mp-25 was rated 290 which is harder to hit than almost all the blades Mizuno makes. :hmm: http://www.golfworks.com/images/art/MPF_MIZUNO.pdf Probably some typos. . .

[newtogolf]

More interesting that the mp-25 was rated 290 which is harder to hit than almost all the blades Mizuno makes.

http://www.golfworks.com/images/art/MPF_MIZUNO.pdf

Probably some typos. . .

Yeah, 290 seems really low, almost 100 less than the MP-54 the clubs they are supposed to replace and even less than the MP-5 which are true blades.

[onthehunt526]

I have Exotics CU irons... Just for the record...

[Lihu]

[QUOTE name="Lihu" url="/t/84552/hard-to-hit-clubs/30_30#post_1202926"] More interesting that the mp-25 was rated 290 which is harder to hit than almost all the blades Mizuno makes. :hmm: [URL=http://www.golfworks.com/images/art/MPF_MIZUNO.pdf]http://www.golfworks.com/images/art/MPF_MIZUNO.pdf[/URL] Probably some typos. . .[/QUOTE] Yeah, 290 seems really low, almost 100 less than the MP-54 the clubs they are supposed to replace and even less than the MP-5 which are true blades.

They're really nice BTW. . .