Curious.....So...Why is a slice so easy to hit?

[Vinsk]

We all know the golf swing is incredible intricate. The difference if 1/4" can mean dozens of yards. So I would like to hear (read) from you biomechanics junkies, why is slicing so easy and natural? I can hit a slice with and iron or especially a driver any time I want. So why is it so hard to get the clubface square?

[RayG]

lazy or slow wrists....

[iacas]

I'll take a quick stab at it and then if I change my answer upon further reflection (pretty busy string of days here, so it may be awhile), I'll do so.

Because the ball is "out there" and "down there."

The ball is out away from us, so I think a lot of people swing "out there" to try to hit the ball early in the downswing. This is also exacerbated because the ball is "down there" and people are not used to swinging along the ground to chop at something on the ground - they're used to swinging down at it, like you would to chop a piece of wood sitting on a low stump.

The target line doesn't help either - people want to get the club "out" to the target line quickly.

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Another thought: people when they first learn the game tend to leave the face open and hit shots way right. The instinct is to then swing left (even though start line is governed more by face, "path is instinctual").

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In other words, it's instinctual to swing out and then down. Whether because of the first reason or the second.

P.S. A lot of girls play with heavier clubs, and for them it almost seems like the opposite: it almost seems like the heavier club means they can't throw it out quite as much from the top, so the club drops behind them and they jump to generate speed, both (heavy club which falls behind them in transition, jumping which stalls body pivot) of which help the path be OUTward quite a bit.

[Vinsk]

lazy or slow wrists....

Well, I can slice it like a red ninja with either slow, lazy or solid. But the phenomenon is that we all hear and read that 90% or more of golfers slice the ball. Why? Why don't the majority of amateurs hook, or why not baby draw? Why isn't the natural tendency a square club face?

[MrDC]

Because coming over the top feels right, it's natural, inside-out is just another part of the swing that is an act of faith- faith that swinging like that will send the ball straight, not to the right.

[mvmac]

Because the ball is "out there" and "down there."

The ball is out away from us, so I think a lot of people swing "out there" to try to hit the ball early in the downswing. This is also exacerbated because the ball is "down there" and people are not used to swinging along the ground to chop at something on the ground - they're used to swinging down at it, like you would to chop a piece of wood sitting on a low stump.

The target line doesn't help either - people want to get the club "out" to the target line quickly.

Good post. Yeah in order to get the club on the ball, an OTT swing makes sense (instinctually) to get the club "out" and "down there". It's just an attempt to try and get low point forward.

lazy or slow wrists....

If anything a slicer has "active" wrists. They're flipping the heck out of it on the downswing.

[saevel25]

Good post. Yeah in order to get the club on the ball, an OTT swing makes sense (instinctually) to get the club "out" and "down there". It's just an attempt to try and get low point forward.

Try not to speak to much in terms of being on plane.

Do you think that feeling is systemic from the trend that more amateurs do not create enough depth with the hands in the backswing leading to the clubhead being under the so called plane?

From that position, if the mass of the clubhead is below the plane is it just a natural move to send that mass up and outward at the top of the swing? From A4.5 the only place the mass of the club can go is donward and inward.

[JonMA1]

Our pivot point is too far back. I think of it as running out of reach with my arms. Meaning, even if we have an in to out path and successfully hit the ball first and then the ground (good contact), we can still fail to continue the intended swing path those couple of inches past the ball. The club head starts back inward before contact.

It's another reason why getting weight forward helps improve the swing path.

In case you couldn't tell, I don't know squat about biomechanics. But that's my theory.

[isukgolf]

Great question! Love the feed back as well. For me it is easy to stay behind the ball, and swing with my arms ... which seems to promote an over OTT / outside/in swing ... believe me, I have nailed my share of roof tops! Admittedly I have gotten better thanks to the help here and Evolvr, but it is easier for me to slice than hit it straight'ish ... seems to be my default swing.

[mvmac]

Do you think that feeling is systemic from the trend that more amateurs do not create enough depth with the hands in the backswing leading to the clubhead being under the so called plane?

From that position, if the mass of the clubhead is below the plane is it just a natural move to send that mass up and outward at the top of the swing? From A4.5 the only place the mass of the club can go is donward and inward.

Right that can definitely be part of it and they don't create the depth because they don't turn. Rotating your body on an inclined angle is kind of "unnatural".

[natureboy]

I've wondered about this relative to Bubba W. Did 'what felt natural' possibly tap into a grooved biomechanical thing for marginally less effortful swing speed but you have to flight it lower to reap the carry & roll benefits?

Or is it just that it works because he is lefty and that shape works for the majority of doglegs?

[Vinsk]

Strange thing here: bear in mind I'm left handed. Back when I chopped wood or used a machete in Africa, I could stand much like a golf stance and swing an axe with a blade only about 2mm wide and hit my target pretty squarely every time. I didn't twist the blade and graze off the wood, root, I didn't hit the ground before the wood, root....square blade every time. Left arm back, rotate shoulders, right shoulder under chin....and bam! square hit. Then I take a golf club with a larger blade, and it's like I'm physically challenged. Golf is hard.

[MrFlipper]

Strange thing here: bear in mind I'm left handed. Back when I chopped wood or used a machete in Africa, I could stand much like a golf stance and swing an axe with a blade only about 2mm wide and hit my target pretty squarely every time. I didn't twist the blade and graze off the wood, root, I didn't hit the ground before the wood, root....square blade every time. Left arm back, rotate shoulders, right shoulder under chin....and bam! square hit. Then I take a golf club with a larger blade, and it's like I'm physically challenged. Golf is hard.

That is strange to me as well. I'm a lefthander too, playing righthanded, I was taught to pull down with my left hand, "toll the bell", never had a huge natural issue not shifting weight or hitting early, which is what I equate to slicing. Maybe the axe was heavy and you weren't trying to swing it too quickly so your natural athletic ability just took over?

[Vinsk]

Yeah I've tried to really do that "left arm down" move. It usually leads to me hitting a glorious shank. Problem is my shanks can be either due to a closed face coming inside out, or a wide open from outside in. They both feel the same.

[MrFlipper]

Yeah I've tried to really do that "left arm down" move. It usually leads to me hitting a glorious shank. Problem is my shanks can be either due to a closed face coming inside out, or a wide open from outside in. They both feel the same.

Other than drinking heavily, I don't have anything else. It'll come to you, probably something really basic that you'll slap yourself for when you figure it out. Hang in there.

[Brakkus]

I would narrow it down to the right shoulder. You want to bring it forward. Swing an axe or a punch or hammer a nail and it internally rotates inward. We're  so used to using it to apply force even when you open a door especially  those fire doors in office complexes.

So it's  a very natural movement. In golf that right shoulder needs to be delayed. It will internally rotate eventually but it ruins swing plane from the top. Much like the movements mentioned  above the right arm is going to work across the body and in the golf swing the slice has already started outside so the only way for the club to go is inside on the follow through.

[Mike Boatright]

Most people who play golf have played other sports they pick it up and overpower the swing resulting in all upper body. This tends to cause an over aggressive move that cuts across the ball 98% of the time resulting in all sorts of wild misses mostly slices.

[natureboy]

That is strange to me as well. I'm a lefthander too, playing righthanded, I was taught to pull down with my left hand, "toll the bell", never had a huge natural issue not shifting weight or hitting early, which is what I equate to slicing. Maybe the axe was heavy and you weren't trying to swing it too quickly so your natural athletic ability just took over?

 

I'm on board with that insight. We know it takes 'effort' to swing the club, but it doesn't really get heavy until late in the swing (or once we've let it drop behind us). It's an epee or foil, not a broadsword.