Apple loses processor patent dispute with UW

[saevel25]

http://www.cnet.com/news/apple-faces-862-million-fine-after-losing-processor-patent-punch-up/

Note to all tech companies, don't mess with The University of Wisconsin when it comes to patents. Looks like they are very aggressive with defending their patents. They already settled out of court with Intel when they went after them for a patent dispute. 

Sounds like Apple thought they could skirt buy on this one. Even though UW approached apple to allow them to license the patent. I am sure some lawyer from Apple assured them it was OK. In the end they were wrong. 

 

[Mr. Desmond]

http://www.cnet.com/news/apple-faces-862-million-fine-after-losing-processor-patent-punch-up/

Note to all tech companies, don't mess with The University of Wisconsin when it comes to patents. Looks like they are very aggressive with defending their patents. They already settled out of court with Intel when they went after them for a patent dispute. 

Sounds like Apple thought they could skirt buy on this one. Even though UW approached apple to allow them to license the patent. I am sure some lawyer from Apple assured them it was OK. In the end they were wrong. 

 

A Madison Wisconsin jury ... think Apple was going to get a fair shake? From a 1998 patent?

I see an appeal coming. Apple is very aggressive, too, and sometimes to a fault.

[saevel25]

A Madison Wisconsin jury ... think Apple was going to get a fair shake? From a 1998 patent?

I see an appeal coming. Apple is very aggressive, too, and sometimes to a fault.

I don't think it helps Apple that Intel settled outside of court with Intel over the same patent infringement. So we'll see how that pans out. 

 

[Mr. Desmond]

I don't think it helps Apple that Intel settled outside of court with Intel over the same patent infringement. So we'll see how that pans out. 

 

Sometimes, you settle because the jury is not going to give you a fair shake. In contracts I draft, I ask the consumer to waive their rights to a jury and go before a professional arbiter -- the Judge -- he/she is less expensive than a real arbitration, and a business increases their probability of getting a fair judgment. Off topic, but do not sign contracts offering Arbitration, which can cost more than what you are buying. Go before a judge.

[mchepp]

When my wife first told me the story I thought it was related to this story

http://www.wsj.com/articles/ericsson-sues-apple-for-patent-infringement-1425030488

But it looks like that is another lawsuit altogether. Guess when you are at the top everyone wants their shot.

[iacas]

http://appleinsider.com/articles/15/10/13/apple-found-infringed-on-university-of-wisconsin-cpu-patent-faces-862m-in-damages

The IP in question, U.S. Patent No. 5,781,752 for a “Table based data speculation circuit for parallel processing computer,” was granted to a University of Wisconsin team led by Dr. Gurindar Sohi in 1998. According to WARF and original patent claims, the ‘752 patent focuses on improving power efficiency and overall performance in modern computer processor designs by utilizing “data speculation” circuit, also known as a branch predictor.

http://daringfireball.net/linked/2015/10/14/apple-university-of-wisconsin

For what it’s worth, in 2012 Business Insider ranked the Wisconsin Alumni Research Foundation fifth on its list of most-feared patent trolls. Rockstar Consortium, which is partially owned by Apple, was third on that list, so don’t shed any tears for Apple. The whole system is rotten.

So… yeah. Branch prediction has been around for a loooooong time. 

[Lihu]

A Madison Wisconsin jury ... think Apple was going to get a fair shake? From a 1998 patent?

I see an appeal coming. Apple is very aggressive, too, and sometimes to a fault.

I see a new $250 million "Apple" center for computer science being donated to University of Wisconsin, for their "cooperation".

[newtogolf]

Not the first time and won't be the last Apple is caught stealing IP.

[iacas]

Not the first time and won't be the last Apple is caught stealing IP.

Kind of a weird thing to say… given:

• Everybody in the tech industry steals IP. "Good artists copy. Great artists steal."
• The patents may not even be valid. There's a lot of prior art for branch prediction.

Anyway, even if they had to pay that full amount, that's… 20% of their last quarter's profit.

It's sometimes tough to fathom just how large they've gotten. They sell roughly 10 iPhones per second.

[Lihu]

It's sometimes tough to fathom just how large they've gotten. They sell roughly

10 iPhones per second.

That's 2.5 times higher than the birth rate!

http://www.indexmundi.com/world/birth_rate.html

http://techcrunch.com/2015/09/28/apple-sells-13-million-iphones-in-opening-weekend-or-3000-iphones-per-minute/#.7qzuad:TXSZ

[newtogolf]

Kind of a weird thing to say… given:

• Everybody in the tech industry steals IP. "Good artists copy. Great artists steal."
• The patents may not even be valid. There's a lot of prior art for branch prediction.

Anyway, even if they had to pay that full amount, that's… 20% of their last quarter's profit.

It's sometimes tough to fathom just how large they've gotten. They sell roughly 10 iPhones per second.

I like Apple products but they like to portray how innovative they are and ignore the fact that they do "borrow" IP from others just like everyone else, such as the mouse and GUI.  Xerox PARC invented the mouse and GUI and the Apple boys saw it during a visit of Xerox PARC and later incorporated them into the LISA and MAC.   

[saevel25]

That's 2.5 times higher than the birth rate!

I think that might be unsustainable at some point :) 

I think the phone market is slowly dying down a bit. 

 

[iacas]

I like Apple products but they like to portray how innovative they are and ignore the fact that they do "borrow" IP from others just like everyone else, such as the mouse and GUI.  Xerox PARC invented the mouse and GUI and the Apple boys saw it during a visit of Xerox PARC and later incorporated them into the LISA and MAC.   

Yes, everyone does it, so why go back 30 years? It's off topic for this thread, but there's a lot more to it than to say they stole the mouse or GUI from PARC. Way, way more. And, even if they literally stole it (they did not), they saw the potential and realized it (and improved heavily on it), which takes a lot of "know how" and so on, too.

I'm well aware of Apple's history. . Despite being younger than you, I lived a lot of it, and what I didn't live I talked about or read about countless times. I'm even credited in Apple Confidential.  (The 1999 version.)

Anyway, back on topic…

[turtleback]

Not the first time and won't be the last Apple is caught stealing IP.

Everyone steals in tech.  I remember how hilarious it was when Apple complained that Msoft ripped off their graphical interface with Windows, completely forgetting that THEY ripped off the graphical interface from Xerox's PARC operation.

[iacas]

Everyone steals in tech.  I remember how hilarious it was when Apple complained that Msoft ripped off their graphical interface with Windows, completely forgetting that THEY ripped off the graphical interface from Xerox's PARC operation.

Yeah… that wasn't quite the same.

I think history has led people to over-state how great the Xerox PARC stuff was.

[newtogolf]

Yeah… that wasn't quite the same.

I think history has led people to over-state how great the Xerox PARC stuff was.

I used the Xerox PARC stuff, it was much better than the LISA and original MAC 

[iacas]

I used the Xerox PARC stuff, it was much better than the LISA and original MAC 

Yeah, those non-overlapping windows, the lack of a menu bar, etc. All great!

Back to the topic, please.

[Abu3baid]

In the end this will basically cost Apple nothing.  They are sitting on a cash reserve that is probably bigger than many countries in the world.. I don't know for sure, but I'm probably right if I say they have more cash reserve than Greece.. It's funny to say that but it's probably true.

If it is common for companies to steal tech then the question is does the government have any intention in stopping this?  What if the penalty was actually 3 billion $$ instead of the nearly 1b $$?  Would that get the next company thinking twice about incorporating patented technology?  I don't really don't care how old a patent is, the law is the law..  Just pay for it and then you don't have to worry about it.

I know in my industry we wait 15 - 30 years for patents to run out on originator drugs so that we can submit our files and get registered to produce and sell the medicine..  Why should the tech companies be any different?  To a point where everyone just shrugs their shoulder and says ah everyone does it..  That's a lame excuse to steal intellectual property IMO.