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World Handicap System Now Out (2020)


iacas

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3 hours ago, cutchemist42 said:

Golf Canada....had my first round with a PCC where they said it was easier that day.

but had another question.

The app is saying my score is not eligible for my handicap. Are rounds with PCC applied invalid then despite the differential adjustment?

My HI is an 18.4 and this was a 9 hole round where I shot an 8.1 so I would have expected to show up as eligible.

No, the PCC-influenced rounds should count towards handicap calculation.  I can't say I've ever seen that message, is there any chance you can post a screen shot?  "Not eligible" leads me to wonder if the golf course had a valid Course Rating and Slope, or if maybe they hadn't been rated recently enough.

3 hours ago, cutchemist42 said:

Beats me as to why

The PCC is based entirely on the scores posted at that course on that day.  So the "why" is that scores posted were below the anticipated range.

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Dave

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1 hour ago, DaveP043 said:

The PCC is based entirely on the scores posted at that course on that day.  So the "why" is that scores posted were below the anticipated range.

So if a muni is having an amateur event where better-than-usual players (for that course) are  playing a significant portion of the rounds, could that lead to a PCC even though weather/course conditions are "usual"?  (I'd go out as a hacker and shoot my usual score, but the mathematical average of scores would be significantly lower that day.)

Craig
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Driver: :callaway: Razr Fit 10.5°  
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2 minutes ago, Missouri Swede said:

So if a muni is having an amateur event where better-than-usual players (for that course) are  playing a significant portion of the rounds, could that lead to a PCC even though weather/course conditions are "usual"?  (I'd go out as a hacker and shoot my usual score, but the mathematical average of scores would be significantly lower that day.)

It's almost certainly calculated based on the handicaps of the individuals playing, i.e. the net scores, not the gross scores.  They've never released the actual calculations, but using gross scores just sounds foolish.  

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Dave

:callaway: Rogue SubZero Driver

:titleist: 915F 15 Fairway, 816 H1 19 Hybrid, AP2 4 iron to PW, Vokey 52, 56, and 60 wedges, ProV1 balls 
:ping: G5i putter, B60 version
 :ping:Hoofer Bag, complete with Newport Cup logo
:footjoy::true_linkswear:, and Ashworth shoes

the only thing wrong with this car is the nut behind the wheel.

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3 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

No, the PCC-influenced rounds should count towards handicap calculation.  I can't say I've ever seen that message, is there any chance you can post a screen shot?  "Not eligible" leads me to wonder if the golf course had a valid Course Rating and Slope, or if maybe they hadn't been rated recently enough.

The PCC is based entirely on the scores posted at that course on that day.  So the "why" is that scores posted were below the anticipated range.

Legit course with a slope rating. 

Golf Canada app has a dropdown option go between "current year" and "eligible for HCP"

Based on the score I expected this to factor into a small HI movement, and to just appear as eligible in general.

I have checked that I indicated I played with people.

I maybe thought it was a PCC thing. I went ahead and emailed Golf Canadas member services for help with handicaps.

Screenshot_20210602-154818_GolfCanada.jpg

Screenshot_20210602-154808_GolfCanada.jpg

Edited by cutchemist42
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It may simply be that this 9 hole score hasn't been paired with another 9, so its not being counted yet.  It will sit in a kind of handicap limbo until you post another 9 hole score, when it will be combined and included in the calculations.

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Dave

:callaway: Rogue SubZero Driver

:titleist: 915F 15 Fairway, 816 H1 19 Hybrid, AP2 4 iron to PW, Vokey 52, 56, and 60 wedges, ProV1 balls 
:ping: G5i putter, B60 version
 :ping:Hoofer Bag, complete with Newport Cup logo
:footjoy::true_linkswear:, and Ashworth shoes

the only thing wrong with this car is the nut behind the wheel.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I am starting to turn things around with the help of my friendly PGA professional. But while I was struggling and my handicap rose accordingly, I got this notification on my USGA GHIN app.

"A soft cap has been applied to this Handicap Index, which suppresses upward movement by 50% after a a 3.0 stroke increase over the Low Handicap Index has been reached." So, even if I continued to struggle to break 90, my handicap could not reflect that.

Do you think they will suppress any of my downward movement? That's a joke. I know they won't. I believe that this is just another indication of the USGA protecting low handicapped players in net competitions.

Bill M

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10 minutes ago, phan52 said:

I am starting to turn things around with the help of my friendly PGA professional. But while I was struggling and my handicap rose accordingly, I got this notification on my USGA GHIN app.

"A soft cap has been applied to this Handicap Index, which suppresses upward movement by 50% after a a 3.0 stroke increase over the Low Handicap Index has been reached." So, even if I continued to struggle to break 90, my handicap could not reflect that.

Do you think they will suppress any of my downward movement? That's a joke. I know they won't. I believe that this is just another indication of the USGA protecting low handicapped players in net competitions.

Actually, it might suppress downward movement of your handicap.  The soft cap halves ANY change when your index is between 3 and 5 strokes above your 12-month low.  

Dave

:callaway: Rogue SubZero Driver

:titleist: 915F 15 Fairway, 816 H1 19 Hybrid, AP2 4 iron to PW, Vokey 52, 56, and 60 wedges, ProV1 balls 
:ping: G5i putter, B60 version
 :ping:Hoofer Bag, complete with Newport Cup logo
:footjoy::true_linkswear:, and Ashworth shoes

the only thing wrong with this car is the nut behind the wheel.

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17 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

Actually, it might suppress downward movement of your handicap.  The soft cap halves ANY change when your index is between 3 and 5 strokes above your 12-month low.  

Huh-uh.  The soft cap suppresses only UPWARD movement of your Handicap Index…at least as far as I can determine.  The WHS is happy to see our handicaps go DOWN.

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9 minutes ago, Southern by Choice said:

Huh-uh.  The soft cap suppresses only UPWARD movement of your Handicap Index…at least as far as I can determine.  The WHS is happy to see our handicaps go DOWN.

Let's assume that your 12-month low is 10.0, and doesn't change.  You post enough high scores so your index SHOULD calculate to 14, but it is limited to 13.5, the upward change past 13.0 is cut in half.  Your next score is better, it SHOULD lower your calculated index to 13.8, a change of 0.2, but it will only go down to 13.4, a change of 0.1.  As before, the distance above 13.0 is cut in half.

Dave

:callaway: Rogue SubZero Driver

:titleist: 915F 15 Fairway, 816 H1 19 Hybrid, AP2 4 iron to PW, Vokey 52, 56, and 60 wedges, ProV1 balls 
:ping: G5i putter, B60 version
 :ping:Hoofer Bag, complete with Newport Cup logo
:footjoy::true_linkswear:, and Ashworth shoes

the only thing wrong with this car is the nut behind the wheel.

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31 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

Actually, it might suppress downward movement of your handicap.  The soft cap halves ANY change when your index is between 3 and 5 strokes above your 12-month low.  

Quote

5.8 Limit on Upward Movement of a Handicap Index

There are two trigger points within the cap procedure:

(i) The soft cap. The soft cap is triggered when the difference between a player’s newly calculated Handicap Index and their Low Handicap Index is greater than 3.0 strokes.

When a calculated Handicap Index increase is greater than 3.0 strokes, the value above 3.0 strokes is restricted to 50% of the increase.

(ii) The hard cap. The hard cap triggers to restrict the amount by which a player’s Handicap Index can increase, after application of the soft cap, to no more than 5.0 strokes above their Low Handicap Index.

There is no limit on the amount by which a player’s Handicap Index can decrease.

The soft cap and hard cap procedures start to take effect only after the Low Handicap Index has been established

 

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Craig
What's in the :ogio: Silencer bag (on the :clicgear: cart)
Driver: :callaway: Razr Fit 10.5°  
5 Wood: :tmade: Burner  
Hybrid: :cobra: Baffler DWS 20°
Irons: :ping: G400 
Wedge: :ping: Glide 2.0 54° ES grind 
Putter: :heavyputter:  midweight CX2
:aimpoint:,  :bushnell: Tour V4

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1 minute ago, Missouri Swede said:

 

You are right in that when the index goes lower than the previous low, its movement is not reduced at all.  But when the index is in the "soft cap region", any movement, in either direction, is cut in half until the index drops below the Low Index + 3, or goes into the hard cap region.

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Dave

:callaway: Rogue SubZero Driver

:titleist: 915F 15 Fairway, 816 H1 19 Hybrid, AP2 4 iron to PW, Vokey 52, 56, and 60 wedges, ProV1 balls 
:ping: G5i putter, B60 version
 :ping:Hoofer Bag, complete with Newport Cup logo
:footjoy::true_linkswear:, and Ashworth shoes

the only thing wrong with this car is the nut behind the wheel.

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2 hours ago, phan52 said:

Do you think they will suppress any of my downward movement? That's a joke. I know they won't. I believe that this is just another indication of the USGA protecting low handicapped players in net competitions.

Considering that low-handicap players are already at a base disadvantage in net competitions it would make total sense for the USGA and other governing bodies to try to protect them somewhat. Low handicap golfers have much less variability in their scores than high handicap golfers. Those with a high handicap are much more likely to shoot a net -5 than those with a low handicap.

The odds of a 5.9 handicap golfer or less shooting a tournament score with a net differential of -5 is 1 in 379. The odds of a 13-21.9 handicapper shooting that same -5 net differential score is more than double, at only 1 in 174. The odds of a 31 handicap or greater shooting a comparable net score is as high as 1 in 35. 

In net competition low handicap golfers are at a severe disadvantage, being more than 10x less likely to post an exceptionally good score (such as what would be required to win such a competition) as compared to high handicap golfers.

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1 hour ago, DaveP043 said:

You are right in that when the index goes lower than the previous low, its movement is not reduced at all.  But when the index is in the "soft cap region", any movement, in either direction, is cut in half until the index drops below the Low Index + 3, or goes into the hard cap region.

Pretty sure this this isn’t true.

If you’re a 10 and you should be a 15, you’re a 14. If your next score makes you a 14, you’re a 13.5. Half of the extra above 13.

8E1C8EA7-B564-4E93-A74D-52A9C40F2421.png

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instructor Development, 5 Simple Keys®/Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins • Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 • "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 • Penn-State Behrend Head Coach • • • • • • • • • • :aimpoint: :edel: :true_linkswear:

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2 hours ago, iacas said:

Pretty sure this this isn’t true.

If you’re a 10 and you should be a 15, you’re a 14. If your next score makes you a 14, you’re a 13.5. Half of the extra above 13.

8E1C8EA7-B564-4E93-A74D-52A9C40F2421.png

I'm assuming you mean that your low index is 10, and your current calculated index is 15, the soft cap gives s you 14.0.  The way I look at it, the score you mention would move you one full stroke down if the soft cap isn't in effect, from 15 to 14.  With the soft cap in place, you change from 14 to 13.5, exactly as you say, a change of 0.5.  So the actual effect of that score is half of what it would be without the soft cap in effect.  

Dave

:callaway: Rogue SubZero Driver

:titleist: 915F 15 Fairway, 816 H1 19 Hybrid, AP2 4 iron to PW, Vokey 52, 56, and 60 wedges, ProV1 balls 
:ping: G5i putter, B60 version
 :ping:Hoofer Bag, complete with Newport Cup logo
:footjoy::true_linkswear:, and Ashworth shoes

the only thing wrong with this car is the nut behind the wheel.

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Just now, DaveP043 said:

I'm assuming you mean that your low index is 10, and your current calculated index is 15, the soft cap gives s you 14.0.  The way I look at it, the score you mention would move you one full stroke down if the soft cap isn't in effect, from 15 to 14.  With the soft cap in place, you change from 14 to 13.5, exactly as you say, a change of 0.5.  So the actual effect of that score is half of what it would be without the soft cap in effect.  

That’s a goofy way of thinking about it.

Your way requires a “memory” of sorts beyond the low index. That’s not how it’s written and is more confusing.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instructor Development, 5 Simple Keys®/Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins • Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 • "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 • Penn-State Behrend Head Coach • • • • • • • • • • :aimpoint: :edel: :true_linkswear:

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1 minute ago, iacas said:

That’s a goofy way of thinking about it.

To me it seems more accurate than claiming that the soft cap slows upward movement of your index, but that your index will fall just as fast as it used to fall when you shoot a good score.

Dave

:callaway: Rogue SubZero Driver

:titleist: 915F 15 Fairway, 816 H1 19 Hybrid, AP2 4 iron to PW, Vokey 52, 56, and 60 wedges, ProV1 balls 
:ping: G5i putter, B60 version
 :ping:Hoofer Bag, complete with Newport Cup logo
:footjoy::true_linkswear:, and Ashworth shoes

the only thing wrong with this car is the nut behind the wheel.

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And actually it is wrong, too. If your low cap is a 10, and you should be a 15, you’re a 14. Checks out.

If your next score would make you a 14, you’re a 13.5 because 1 is split in half. But it’s the one over the soft cap, not the reduction in one. But the math “works” because it’s 1.

If you were a 14, then, and your next score makes you a 13… you’re a 13. Not a 13.5.

1 minute ago, DaveP043 said:

To me it seems more accurate than claiming that the soft cap slows upward movement of your index, but that your index will fall just as fast as it used to fall when you shoot a good score.

No.

The soft cap only slows upward movement. It does not slow downward movement.

There is no memory required for any “actual” handicap (the “15” in these scenarios).

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instructor Development, 5 Simple Keys®/Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins • Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 • "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 • Penn-State Behrend Head Coach • • • • • • • • • • :aimpoint: :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | 5SK.com | LSW | Instructional Droplets

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8 minutes ago, iacas said:

The soft cap only slows upward movement. It does not slow downward movement.

You’re right…as I asserted earlier.  
 

Gentlemen, I’ve been living with this stupid system of hard caps and soft caps for more than a year now.  And it is exacerbated by the Exceptional Score Reduction, which yanks the Low Handicap Index into ridiculously unsustainable levels…and then cements them in place with the aforementioned caps!  I’m a high-handicapper with some wild swings in my scores.  If my HI was allowed to float in keeping with my 8 best most recent scores (or 10 best, as in the previous system), it would be a more accurate snapshot of my skills.  The WHS attempted to "fix" the problem of sandbagging in competition, and the recreational golfer like me was collateral damage.

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