How to save an overgrown course?

[breadcrumbsins]

Found an overgrown course not played in 5 years.  Greens are visible still but essentially the same as overgrown fairway, just raised.  Anyone know how to bring a green back to life or what it would take to bring the whole course back? And how long? I want to try to do it but not sure of the cost for everything

[SavvySwede]

The biggest costs are going to be the irrigation system and bunkers. There's really no telling what condition the pipes are going to be in after not being maintained for that long, particularly if you're in an area where the ground freezes during winter. What is the name of the course?

[breadcrumbsins]

Not sure of the name but it's in Ohio that does freeze.  Why high cost for bunkers?

[Patch]

Water, fertilizer, seed/sod, sand, and a few really good combo (green, fairway, rough) mowers. 

No need to mention the time, and sweat that will be involved. Employees. Soil samples might be a good thing to have tested, and looked at. Lots of pvc pipe might be needed. A good chain saw. A back hoe would come in handy. Lots electrical wire for the irrigation valves. Maybe a new water pump(s) might be in order. 

You might want to find, and take a class on growing stuff in your local area too. 

Once the course is on the mend refurbishing the club house will need to be done. That or one built.

Probably a bunch of other stuff will pop up. Plus, dont forget those pesky government permits that will be required. 

It could get expensive. 

[breadcrumbsins]

Thanks, I'm thinking about it, it would be a ton of work though.  Everything else is there but would need a clubhouse renovation too.  I guess the real question would be time.  What do you think, one year of work and healing time might let you open year two?

[SavvySwede]

46 minutes ago, breadcrumbsins said:

Not sure of the name but it's in Ohio that does freeze.  Why high cost for bunkers?

I figure they're all washed out at this point. Drainage underneath is probably clogged up with old sand/silt and would likely needto be dug up and replaced. Then you need to put in new liners, sand, and then a fair amount of labor to get it the right consistency. Though it's certainly possible you could just dump some new sand in them and they'll be fine. Again, no way of telling until you go out and inspect them more closely. Just out of curiosity, what's the property selling for in it's current condition?

[breadcrumbsins]

It's owned by a town almost like a muni but part of an old resort.  It's not actually for sale but I'm trying to find a way to lease it.  Would be so sweet it's like 200+ acres, free water and some equipment already.  I only have 150k saved between me and a friend, probably won't happen but if I get it I'll try.  It was apparently busy and $42 to drive 18 5 years ago until it didn't open in 2010 because of the town budget.  I'm just worried about the greens, if they can't be saved they might cost well over 100k to redo them, everything else is overgrown but fine.

[SavvySwede]

11 minutes ago, breadcrumbsins said:

It's owned by a town almost like a muni but part of an old resort.  It's not actually for sale but I'm trying to find a way to lease it.  Would be so sweet it's like 200+ acres, free water and some equipment already.  I only have 150k saved between me and a friend, probably won't happen but if I get it I'll try.  It was apparently busy and $42 to drive 18 5 years ago until it didn't open in 2010 because of the town budget.  I'm just worried about the greens, if they can't be saved they might cost well over 100k to redo them, everything else is overgrown but fine.

Now that is certainly a bad idea. You spend all the money to fix it up and when the lease is up they could just take it from you and reap the benefits.

[breadcrumbsins]

True but maybe it would still be worth it.  A 20 year lease maybe, otherwise the land is probably worth over 2-3 million and not doable anyway for me

[Psyber]

This has bad idea written all over it. File this in the if you have to ask it's not for you category. 

[Patch]

2 hours ago, breadcrumbsins said:

It's owned by a town almost like a muni but part of an old resort.  It's not actually for sale but I'm trying to find a way to lease it.  Would be so sweet it's like 200+ acres, free water and some equipment already.  I only have 150k saved between me and a friend, probably won't happen but if I get it I'll try.  It was apparently busy and $42 to drive 18 5 years ago until it didn't open in 2010 because of the town budget.  I'm just worried about the greens, if they can't be saved they might cost well over 100k to redo them, everything else is overgrown but fine.

Water, fertilizer, seed/sod, sand, and a few really good combo (green, fairway, rough) mowers. 

No need to mention the time, and sweat that will be involved. Employees. Soil samples might be a good thing to have tested, and looked at. Lots of pvc pipe might be needed. A good chain saw. A back hoe would come in handy. Lots electrical wire for the irrigation valves. Maybe a new water pump(s) might be in order. 

You might want to find, and take a class on growing stuff in your local area too. 

Once the course is on the mend refurbishing the club house will need to be done. That or one built.

Probably a bunch of other stuff will pop up. Plus, dont forget those pesky government permits that will be required. 

It could get expensive. Personally if I couldn't get town to pay for the majority of the refurbishing, say at least 90%, I'd stay away from this venture. I would definately not use more than 10% of my own money either. 

[breadcrumbsins]

Yeah the obvious reaction is it's a bad idea because tons of courses are loosing money everywhere but if the land is free, and the water is free, and they still have all the mowers and carts, it might be worth it even if it's temporary.  

[Dave325]

7 hours ago, breadcrumbsins said:

Yeah the obvious reaction is it's a bad idea because tons of courses are loosing money everywhere but if the land is free, and the water is free, and they still have all the mowers and carts, it might be worth it even if it's temporary.  

Definitely a noble effort! I would say that you might want to have a thorough evaluation of the course and what it takes to rebuild. Just to make sure that you count your costs so that you can finish. Remember that everything always coasts more than it first thought it would cost, so make sure you have a financial buffer in there. I am in Ohio. So, I'll come play when you open. Anywhere near Cinci?

 

By the way... I love your avatar... I'm a Dylan fan.

[14ledo81]

If nothing eles, could you fix up a few holes, and use it as your private practice area?

[DaveP043]

12 hours ago, breadcrumbsins said:

It's owned by a town almost like a muni but part of an old resort.  It's not actually for sale but I'm trying to find a way to lease it.  Would be so sweet it's like 200+ acres, free water and some equipment already.  I only have 150k saved between me and a friend, probably won't happen but if I get it I'll try.  It was apparently busy and $42 to drive 18 5 years ago until it didn't open in 2010 because of the town budget.  I'm just worried about the greens, if they can't be saved they might cost well over 100k to redo them, everything else is overgrown but fine.

I wouldn't touch this unless I could come up with something over a million bucks that I could afford to lose.  You're talking about leasing equipment (or repairing equipment that hasn't been used for a few years), seed and fertilizer and other chemicals, and labor for a year or so, not to mention renovation of bunkers and irrigation lines if that's required.  A new water pump alone could cost well over $10,000.  Once you get it in shape, you're still looking at a facility that wasn't making money when it was in business.  If it had been making money, it wouldn't have closed.  Just as a reference, my home club runs on a pretty bare-bones budget, and we spend something like $500,000 per year on the golf course itself.  I can understand your dream, but I think it'll take some really deep pockets to make it happen.

[Ernest Jones]

9 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

I wouldn't touch this unless I could come up with something over a million bucks that I could afford to lose.  You're talking about leasing equipment (or repairing equipment that hasn't been used for a few years), seed and fertilizer and other chemicals, and labor for a year or so, not to mention renovation of bunkers and irrigation lines if that's required.  A new water pump alone could cost well over $10,000.  Once you get it in shape, you're still looking at a facility that wasn't making money when it was in business.  If it had been making money, it wouldn't have closed.  Just as a reference, my home club runs on a pretty bare-bones budget, and we spend something like $500,000 per year on the golf course itself.  I can understand your dream, but I think it'll take some really deep pockets to make it happen.

Agreed. To me the biggest red flag is the fact that it closed in the first place. Now, sometimes that is due to mismanagement and changing priorities of the town but IF it was a sustainable enterprise, why would they let their investment just go to fallow rather than attempt to move the property, either by outright sale or by some kind of management lease. 

Reminds me of this place in a nearby shopping area. It was a pizza joint that went under, someone bought it, thinking it was a great deal - already has the pizza ovens, counters, walk-in refridgerator, cash registered and so on - 6 months later it went under again. Another dude comes along and says, "hey, great business opportunity! It's already got the ovens, fridges, counters..." 4 months later, it goes under. Third sucker comes along and says, "hey, great business opportunity! It's already got..."

I would tread very carefully and only make the move if you can survive a possible failure. 

[breadcrumbsins]

5 hours ago, Dave325 said:

Definitely a noble effort! I would say that you might want to have a thorough evaluation of the course and what it takes to rebuild. Just to make sure that you count your costs so that you can finish. Remember that everything always coasts more than it first thought it would cost, so make sure you have a financial buffer in there. I am in Ohio. So, I'll come play when you open. Anywhere near Cinci?

 

By the way... I love your avatar... I'm a Dylan fan.

Nice! This course is I'm guessing 90 miles east of Colombus.  If by some miracle it comes together I'll let you know!

[breadcrumbsins]

2 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

I wouldn't touch this unless I could come up with something over a million bucks that I could afford to lose.  You're talking about leasing equipment (or repairing equipment that hasn't been used for a few years), seed and fertilizer and other chemicals, and labor for a year or so, not to mention renovation of bunkers and irrigation lines if that's required.  A new water pump alone could cost well over $10,000.  Once you get it in shape, you're still looking at a facility that wasn't making money when it was in business.  If it had been making money, it wouldn't have closed.  Just as a reference, my home club runs on a pretty bare-bones budget, and we spend something like $500,000 per year on the golf course itself.  I can understand your dream, but I think it'll take some really deep pockets to make it happen.

Apparently the whole years budget was spent on renovations for a hotel owned by the town.  They signed an oil and gas lease with over a million signing bonus that never went through so no budget to open.  think it's safe to say anything I could do would be bare bones, I just think the greens would be the really expensive part and probably the deal breaker.  I've heard up to 50k for a single green if not salvageable.