Apple v. FBI

[inthehole]

2 hours ago, jsgolfer said:

Looks like the FBI may have found a way in without Apple? If someone can hack into it, doesn't that create the backdoor for all phones?  Would Apple then increase the security on the IPhone so this can't happen again?

 

Short answer is YOU BET THEY WOULD - they are bound and determined to not cooperate on this issue.   I imagine a highly politicized game of cat & mouse would ensue between apple & the gov't.  

[boogielicious]

3 hours ago, jsgolfer said:

Looks like the FBI may have found a way in without Apple? If someone can hack into it, doesn't that create the backdoor for all phones?  Would Apple then increase the security on the IPhone so this can't happen again?

http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2016/03/21/justice-asks-apple-hearing-delay/82094354/

" Justice lawyers claimed in court documents filed late Monday that an undisclosed "outside party'' demonstrated a "possible method'' to the FBI for unlocking Farook's phone"

 - FBI

[iacas]

There's another take on it.

1 hour ago, inthehole said:

Short answer is YOU BET THEY WOULD - they are bound and determined to not cooperate on this issue. I imagine a highly politicized game of cat & mouse would ensue between apple & the gov't.  

Here's the thing you're not getting, @inthehole. This isn't about Apple not cooperating with bringing down a terrorist (never mind two things, 1) the terrorist in question is already "brought down," and 2) the likelihood of anything useful being on his work-supplied cell phone is very small), because if Apple is somehow unable to have security, or loses in court, or whatever, then people can simply… download software that encrypts their data.

I could create a file, right now, with a passphrase long enough that it would take you with a shitload of computing power, decades to break. I could do this right now.

Even if the iPhone were 100% insecure, criminals (or good, upstanding, honest folk) could download encryption SOFTWARE that pretty much prevents anyone from doing the same thing. The software could delete after ten failed attempts, slow the attempted entry rate down to 1 per minute… whatever it wanted to do. Just the same as Apple.

And as soon as the FBI wins a court case against one, another could pop up.

[iacas]

http://macsparky.com/blog/2016/3/fbi-vs-apple-where-is-this-going

[newtogolf]

2 hours ago, iacas said:

http://macsparky.com/blog/2016/3/fbi-vs-apple-where-is-this-going

I've believe this is government posturing since the postponement was announced.  Our government has become very savvy is gauging popular opinion and knowing when it isn't in their best interest to push for something that would impact an upcoming election.  

This will get shelved for a bit and sometime in the future, maybe not until after the elections we'll see a news story that in a closed court a ruling was made and that Apple will be forced to develop the back door.    

[saevel25]

14 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

I've believe this is government posturing since the postponement was announced.  Our government has become very savvy is gauging popular opinion and knowing when it isn't in their best interest to push for something that would impact an upcoming election.  

This will get shelved for a bit and sometime in the future, maybe not until after the elections we'll see a news story that in a closed court a ruling was made and that Apple will be forced to develop the back door.    

As Rahm Emanuel , Obama's former chief of staff, is quoted in saying, 

Quote

You never let a serious crisis go to waste. And what I mean by that it's an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before.

-Rahm Emanuel

 

[newtogolf]

23 hours ago, saevel25 said:

As Rahm Emanuel , Obama's former chief of staff, is quoted in saying, 

 

Exactly, if it wasn't for 9/11 GW would have never gotten the USA Patriot Act passed.  

[k-troop]

Looks like the FBI did it. 

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/03/28/472192080/the-fbi-has-successfully-unlocked-the-iphone-without-apples-help

[newtogolf]

2 hours ago, k-troop said:

Looks like the FBI did it. 

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/03/28/472192080/the-fbi-has-successfully-unlocked-the-iphone-without-apples-help

Government thought it was best to let Apple win this battle, a drawn out court case would not play well in an election year.  

We know a few more events like Brussels and the court of public opinion will turn on Apple and the government will win the war.  

[krupa]

8 hours ago, newtogolf said:

Government thought it was best to let Apple win this battle, a drawn out court case would not play well in an election year.  

We know a few more events like Brussels and the court of public opinion will turn on Apple and the government will win the war.  

I think the only way they're going to get public opinion on their side in cases like this is to demonstrate that there was something useful on the phone that could have resulted in other arrests or stopped an attack. 

At the same time, I think law enforcement learned a lot about how to present a case to the public; they made a lot of mistakes this time around.  First, they admitted that they didn't expect to find much, if anything, on the phone.  Second, they admitted that someone reset the password then forgot what it was.  Third, they tried to make a bunch of claims that had the computer people I know (including myself) laughing. 

If the FBI came out at the start and said, "we believe there is actionable intelligence on that phone", I think public opinion would have already been more on their side.  No one would remember if they found anything or not. 

[boogielicious]

They probably only found pictures of the guys junk. 

I also think their "method" was using the code that they instructed the local authorities to change to. No one changes a phone security code without remembering what they changed it to.

[saevel25]

9 hours ago, newtogolf said:

Government thought it was best to let Apple win this battle, a drawn out court case would not play well in an election year.

We know a few more events like Brussels and the court of public opinion will turn on Apple and the government will win the war.

I think it was the Homeland Security. There was rumors they had an option that could break into certain iPhones with a certain OS version. It wasn't 100% certain.

This battle is far from over. I do think that the legislature will need to step up here on this one. I just hope that they protect personal privacy.

30 minutes ago, krupa said:

If the FBI came out at the start and said, "we believe there is actionable intelligence on that phone", I think public opinion would have already been more on their side.  No one would remember if they found anything or not.

Still a tough stance to take when you consider the guy had a 2nd phone and this was his work phone that showed no record of having contact with anyone from overseas as shown by the phone records.

Apple would have been smart enough to attack this. Also, Apple hasn't really been a company to bend to the whim of public opinion. They do there thing and people either buy their product or not. I bet they believe that even if they stand against the FBI on this they wouldn't lose people not buying their products.

I say good for Apple for standing up for their own values of letting people have the right to have a secure phone from unwarranted intrusion.

[GolfLug]

On ‎2‎/‎18‎/‎2016 at 9:58 AM, GolfLug said:

So here's a conspiracy theory... Is Apple the only party capable of writing the code? I really feel the code is already on it's way - not by Apple, but by Hackers Anonymous Inc. under the watchful eye of the FBI. I do not have much knowledge of encryption tech but I would think code's being written as we speak/write. Then they will use it and keep it for their future use. Not only will they over step their bounds but we will be none the wiser for it.

 

'Told you so'.... I know, not exactly what happened (i.e. code written), but in principle same thing. They hacked in without Apple's help. Heard on morning news..technique used was try 9 PW attempts, make a copy, start over for 9 more, copy, start over, rinse/repeat n times... till they hit it. I know more to it than that but I am a code/encryption layman to say the least and this is best to my understanding.

 

[iacas]

25 minutes ago, GolfLug said:

'Told you so'.... I know, not exactly what happened (i.e. code written), but in principle same thing. They hacked in without Apple's help. Heard on morning news..technique used was try 9 PW attempts, make a copy, start over for 9 more, copy, start over, rinse/repeat n times... till they hit it. I know more to it than that but I am a code/encryption layman to say the least and this is best to my understanding.

Well, that's not really breaking in then.

Set an alphanumeric passcode, people. Though if they can get your thumb even that won't be necessary.

[GolfLug]

4 minutes ago, iacas said:

Set an alphanumeric passcode, people. Though if they can get your thumb even that won't be necessary.

QFT.

7 minutes ago, iacas said:

Well, that's not really breaking in then.

Close enough for village simpletons like me.

OT: Honestly I have always been worried about security of online banking, ID theft more than anything else exactly because of this. There is always somebody out there who is smart and persistent enough to figure PWs. I guess convenience and exposure go hand in hand.

[newtogolf]

31 minutes ago, GolfLug said:

QFT.

Close enough for village simpletons like me.

OT: Honestly I have always been worried about security of online banking, ID theft more than anything else exactly because of this. There is always somebody out there who is smart and persistent enough to figure PWs. I guess convenience and exposure go hand in hand.

My guess is Farook only used numbers for his passcode as the combinations of alpha numeric would be painful to hack if you had to reset the phone every nine tries.   

Use 16 character passwords with combination of alpha numeric, upper case and symbols and no one will likely hack your password.  

[iacas]

3 hours ago, newtogolf said:

My guess is Farook only used numbers for his passcode as the combinations of alpha numeric would be painful to hack if you had to reset the phone every nine tries.   

Use 16 character passwords with combination of alpha numeric, upper case and symbols and no one will likely hack your password.  

On an iPhone, that is.

I'm always reminded of this when this topic comes up: https://xkcd.com/936/ .

[boogielicious]

3 minutes ago, iacas said:

On an iPhone, that is.

I'm always reminded of this when this topic comes up: https://xkcd.com/936/ .

I need to send this to my IT department.