X-flex shafts in Woods and hybrids for ~105mph Clubhead speed?

[GolfLug]

1 hour ago, newtogolf said:

Stiffness varies across clubs and shaft manufacturers so it's very possible the R flex is okay for your iron shafts but not hybrids and woods. 

Oh, it's the other way around. My irons are KBS C-taper stiff (120 g) and so are my hybrids (FST Mamiya Proforce). It's the driver (TM AB) that has the R-Flex. And, yes agree, about the stiffness variance. But I am going by how it is performing, since I am over 6 months into it. 

[onthehunt526]

Just so you know,

I didn't go out on a limb for this... I swung the X and liked how it felt... Is there any more drawbacks to not sticking with Stiff?

[Lihu]

9 minutes ago, onthehunt526 said:

Just so you know,

I didn't go out on a limb for this... I swung the X and liked how it felt... Is there any more drawbacks to not sticking with Stiff?

No, but there aren't any drawbacks going regular either. It just depends upon what works best for your swing.

[saevel25]

1 hour ago, onthehunt526 said:

Just so you know,

I didn't go out on a limb for this... I swung the X and liked how it felt... Is there any more drawbacks to not sticking with Stiff?

If it's the same make and model then very little. Your talking about 4-5 gram heavier golf shaft with basically the same bend profile. It's not that significant. 

[Lihu]

2 hours ago, saevel25 said:

If it's the same make and model then very little. Your talking about 4-5 gram heavier golf shaft with basically the same bend profile. It's not that significant. 

That sounds like a manufacturing variation? Maybe they just sorted through one run?

[saevel25]

25 minutes ago, Lihu said:

That sounds like a manufacturing variation? Maybe they just sorted through one run?

I have no clue. Most golf companies just vary weight to change the flex.

[Lihu]

Just now, saevel25 said:

I have no clue. Most golf companies just vary weight to change the flex.

Makes sense.

[Dave2512]

In that shaft it's 3 grams. Probably couldn't feel the difference between R and X at just 6g, everything else was nearly identical. With the Matrix Tie series shafts really have to get into a different color to see significant flight and feel differences. I have white, red and black in different heads just depends on what I want out of it. I notice an S in Black Tie feels a lot firmer than S in White Tie, it's supposed to.

I did the same thing when I was using Aldila NV and NVS.  

[colin007]

@onthehunt526I have the x-stiff Black Tie 7M3, in a Callaway Razr Fit Extreme. Not sure how different it is from your 75M4. Swing speed is 117. It really does depend on how you load the shaft, and I could tell the difference between the stiff and the x-stiff.

I too have a smash factor issue...1.41 seems about the best I usual get. If only, right?

[onthehunt526]

5 hours ago, colin007 said:

@onthehunt526I have the x-stiff Black Tie 7M3, in a Callaway Razr Fit Extreme. Not sure how different it is from your 75M4. Swing speed is 117. It really does depend on how you load the shaft, and I could tell the difference between the stiff and the x-stiff.

I too have a smash factor issue...1.41 seems about the best I usual get. If only, right?

I think its probably a contact issue... It's been a little better since I've started addressing the ball a little toward the heel, not much just a smidge. But if I could get it a little more toward the actual sweet spot... I could get 1.43 or better... I get a little quick coming down sometimes, my miss is a push or a toe-hook....

The main reason I went to X was the feel, and if I'm smooth in my transistion, my shot pattern is tighter 255-260 carry... and I could theoretically hit a 15 yard wide fairway... 

not boasting but I'm just saying... I hit 20 balls with each flex shaft... I was an average of 3 yards closer to the center line with the X...

[onthehunt526]

6 hours ago, colin007 said:

@onthehunt526I have the x-stiff Black Tie 7M3, in a Callaway Razr Fit Extreme. Not sure how different it is from your 75M4. Swing speed is 117. It really does depend on how you load the shaft, and I could tell the difference between the stiff and the x-stiff.

I too have a smash factor issue...1.41 seems about the best I usual get. If only, right?

I think its probably a contact issue... It's been a little better since I've started addressing the ball a little toward the heel, not much just a smidge. But if I could get it a little more toward the actual sweet spot... I could get 1.43 or better... I get a little quick coming down sometimes, my miss is a push or a toe-hook....

The main reason I went to X was the feel, and if I'm smooth in my transistion, my shot pattern is tighter 255-260 carry... and I could theoretically hit a 15 yard wide fairway... 

not boasting but I'm just saying... I hit 20 balls with each flex shaft... I was an average of 3 yards closer to the center line with the X...

 

Mine too is a 7M3.1 I was reading the stock shafts wrong.

[colin007]

11 minutes ago, onthehunt526 said:

I think its probably a contact issue... It's been a little better since I've started addressing the ball a little toward the heel, not much just a smidge. But if I could get it a little more toward the actual sweet spot... I could get 1.43 or better... I get a little quick coming down sometimes, my miss is a push or a toe-hook....

The main reason I went to X was the feel, and if I'm smooth in my transistion, my shot pattern is tighter 255-260 carry... and I could theoretically hit a 15 yard wide fairway... 

not boasting but I'm just saying... I hit 20 balls with each flex shaft... I was an average of 3 yards closer to the center line with the X...

 

Mine too is a 7M3.1 I was reading the stock shafts wrong.

Oh ok, so it's the same shaft. That's a boss shaft BTW. I love mines.

Honestly, the only time I see my smash number is on a SIM at a golf store. What's bizarre is that even with the contact tape showing a dead center hit my number sucks. Not sure how that's possible.

[onthehunt526]

If you guys want to see my new set sneak over to WITB Photo Edition... I gotta figure out how to compress photos but I'll put a bunch up once I do.

[Mike Boatright]

Shafts are never uniform as they say it's really feel along with some specs such as kick point weight etc.. Overall I like to flex it with my foot a bit and just see the flex I can just tell if it's good to go or not. Golf shafts are also like tree branches the shorter the shaft the stiffer the flex so if your driver or fairway wood shaft is + or minus it will effect flex. 105 mph isn't fast enough for an x flex,or true x flex with a stiff tip you need about 117 mph average. 105 is really in the regular flex range with lower loft say 8.5 or 10 deg stiff. Assume sometimes you will swing 98 mph you will then end up hitting it low and straight with the x it's really a one trick pony and has a swing speed range of 112 to 122. For Reference Jamie Sadlowski long driver uses custom dynamic gold x 700 shafts in his irons and 4 xxxx proto driver shaft with his 140 mph swing speed. Never have ego shaft disease where it's a vanity to boast x flex shafts when you basically just end up losing yardage and height from them because you don't swing fast enough to make them work. If you think the x flex is working better than your other trials then it's probably just a stiff flex that says x with maybe a tad bit more weight and only marginal stiffness difference. With a driver you can get away with x more because it longer and flexier the shorter the shaft the stiffer it gets! Unless you plop down 400 bucks on a tour shaft that has it nailed to perfection vs stock or mid range shafts at golf galaxy is always a crap shoot. Pga tour guys swing 114 mph and use strong stiff flexes custom made for them or x flex stiff tipped for a swp range of 115 to 130 but this is Like DJ.

Edited March 7, 2016 by Mike Boatright

[onthehunt526]

On 3/7/2016 at 5:10 AM, Mike Boatright said:

Shafts are never uniform as they say it's really feel along with some specs such as kick point weight etc.. Overall I like to flex it with my foot a bit and just see the flex I can just tell if it's good to go or not. Golf shafts are also like tree branches the shorter the shaft the stiffer the flex so if your driver or fairway wood shaft is + or minus it will effect flex. 105 mph isn't fast enough for an x flex,or true x flex with a stiff tip you need about 117 mph average. 105 is really in the regular flex range with lower loft say 8.5 or 10 deg stiff. Assume sometimes you will swing 98 mph you will then end up hitting it low and straight with the x it's really a one trick pony and has a swing speed range of 112 to 122. For Reference Jamie Sadlowski long driver uses custom dynamic gold x 700 shafts in his irons and 4 xxxx proto driver shaft with his 140 mph swing speed. Never have ego shaft disease where it's a vanity to boast x flex shafts when you basically just end up losing yardage and height from them because you don't swing fast enough to make them work. If you think the x flex is working better than your other trials then it's probably just a stiff flex that says x with maybe a tad bit more weight and only marginal stiffness difference. With a driver you can get away with x more because it longer and flexier the shorter the shaft the stiffer it gets! Unless you plop down 400 bucks on a tour shaft that has it nailed to perfection vs stock or mid range shafts at golf galaxy is always a crap shoot. Pga tour guys swing 114 mph and use strong stiff flexes custom made for them or x flex stiff tipped for a swp range of 115 to 130 but this is Like DJ.

Mine plays a little softer anyway because it's a half-inch longer than standard (I'm 6'5").

The thing is @Mike Boatright, I felt the same way that both shafts are about the same, but the X was a smidge heavier. I do play stiff in my irons (KBS Tour 105, a shaft you can't get stock, in the EXI irons), and around stiff in my wedges (DG Wedge shafts). 

If I would've not gotten X-Flex in my 4w and 3h and stuck with Stiff, and gotten the Driver in X-Flex and though it was too stiff, I would just have my retailer get me a Stiff with the Exotics adapter.

With the 4w (I can't hit a 3w well, but I'm more consistent with the 4w, and my misses are more manageable), I tend to balloon even well struck shots, but with the X-Flex it smoothed my transistion because you have to be smooth. 

I hit 10 shots with the EX9 Driver head with about 6 different shafts each... The Matrix Black Tie 7M3.1 X-Flex was the best... that dynamic fitting was really the best golf-related Christmas Present I've ever gotten . (Well it was a Gift Certificate for $100 to a place that has a Simulator, fitting cart, a really, really good clubmaker, and a pro.)

 

[saevel25]

On Monday, March 07, 2016 at 5:10 AM, Mike Boatright said:

105 mph isn't fast enough for an x flex,or true x flex with a stiff tip you need about 117 mph average.

There is no such thing as a true X-Stiff. There is no industry standard outside of frequency measurement. 

I would go with, http://www.golfshaftreviews.info/

This website actually measures the deflection at intervals along the golf shaft under a standardized loading. This is the best measurement of how stiff the shaft is and it's bend profile.

On Monday, March 07, 2016 at 5:10 AM, Mike Boatright said:

Assume sometimes you will swing 98 mph you will then end up hitting it low and straight with the x it's really a one trick pony and has a swing speed range of 112 to 122.

There is no defined industry standard on shaft flex. Shaft flex is just a way for companies to vary a make/model for fine tuning the fitting process. 

On Monday, March 07, 2016 at 5:10 AM, Mike Boatright said:

Unless you plop down 400 bucks on a tour shaft that has it nailed to perfection vs stock or mid range shafts at golf galaxy is always a crap shoot. Pga tour guys swing 114 mph and use strong stiff flexes custom made for them or x flex stiff tipped for a swp range of 115 to 130 but this is Like DJ.

Most golf shafts today are much better at their quality. Check out that website, a lot of sub $200 golf shafts have radial quality in the 97%+ range. This allows them to be aligned in any direction.

Really there is very small chance you'll find a premium golf shaft that outperforms a cheaper one. The only difference is feel.

 

 

[saevel25]

https://youtu.be/EH0hm9dRLow?t=7m53s

A bit on shaft design and fitting from PING with Mark Crossfield.

They go into how a player torques the golf shaft in transition and how that plays in if you are a player who can play a wide range of golf shafts. A Lee Westwood who really changes the how his hands move compared to the backswing loads the shaft a ton compared to someone like a Michael Thompson who almost sends the hands back on the path from the backswing, in terms of it's arc length.

It's a good reason why just looking at swing speed for flex doesn't give you the complete picture. This is why getting fit, even though we can't get the exact numbers PING can get in their facility, you can get close by looking at ball flight numbers and trajectory.

PING nFlight is cool that it gives you a general range and visual trajectory of what the optimal range is for your swing speed.

 

 

[Lihu]

On March 5, 2016 at 6:01 AM, Lihu said:

No, but there aren't any drawbacks going regular either. It just depends upon what works best for your swing.

This is wrong. Go with stiffer.

One thing that most sites I've been to don't discuss is spin. More flexible shafts will produce lots more back spin. One playing partner even told me to get rid of the R flex with which I am currently experimenting. No roll on landing.