Arnold Palmer

[ppine]

There have been some great hour long programs describing the career and the life of the great Arnold Palmer.  He had a tremendous influence in the popularity of golf once television came into the picture.  His personality only really allowed him to play one way which was with tremendous risk and aggressiveness.  It made him popular with fans worldwide and he was loved by the British and the Scottish. He is a humble man with great class and strong convictions. His career was stunted several times by his difficulties in getting along with the PGA. This was partly due to the way the organization treated his Dad. They claimed he was "crippled" and wouldn't let him play in tournaments. Arnold later went to bat for all golf pros and had a lot to do with raising the prize money available in tournaments. He was instrumental in developing the Senior Tour.

When we were kids we all wanted to play like Arnie. I can remember putting with knock knees because that's what he did. 

Palmer is seventh on the majors won list. He had a couple of tournaments where he was well in front, but playing conservatively just did not suit him. Sometimes his putter let him down when the rest of his game was the best in the world.  He has done more for the game of golf than any man alive and he will always be one of my heroes. It is sad that he will not be hitting a ceremonial drive at the Masters because "I can no longer hit the ball the way I want to."  He is 86. 

 

[colin007]

11 hours ago, ppine said:

There have been some great hour long programs describing the career and the life of the great Arnold Palmer.  He had a tremendous influence in the popularity of golf once television came into the picture.  His personality only really allowed him to play one way which was with tremendous risk and aggressiveness.  It made him popular with fans worldwide and he was loved by the British and the Scottish. He is a humble man with great class and strong convictions. His career was stunted several times by his difficulties in getting along with the PGA. This was partly due to the way the organization treated his Dad. They claimed he was "crippled" and wouldn't let him play in tournaments. Arnold later went to bat for all golf pros and had a lot to do with raising the prize money available in tournaments. He was instrumental in developing the Senior Tour.

When we were kids we all wanted to play like Arnie. I can remember putting with knock knees because that's what he did. 

Palmer is seventh on the majors won list. He had a couple of tournaments where he was well in front, but playing conservatively just did not suit him. Sometimes his putter let him down when the rest of his game was the best in the world.  He has done more for the game of golf than any man alive and he will always be one of my heroes. It is sad that he will not be hitting a ceremonial drive at the Masters because "I can no longer hit the ball the way I want to."  He is 86. 

 

good post.  i disagree with the bolded part - i think Tiger has done more. just my opinion.

[ppine]

Probably because you were not around then.

[Gunther]

26 minutes ago, colin007 said:

good post.  i disagree with the bolded part - i think Tiger has done more. just my opinion.

It's debatable, I suppose but in my mind Arnold has been far more impactful.  

Rory mentioned it in his presser:

1.  Arnold led the way with endorsements contracts, these guys are making a fortune these days.

2.  He increased US golf participation

3.  He made British Open participation the norm

4.  He essentially started the Senior Tour

5.  He did start The Golf Channel

6.  His NICU in Orlando and his many other charitable endeavors have been immeasurable in terms of lives saved and helping others.

7.  And, hes had an impact on purse size.  

Really no comparison.  Tiger not been around long enough.

Edited March 18, 2016 by Gunther

[colin007]

Arnold definitely helped the game to increase.  i would never argue that he didnt.  but i think the game "exploded" after Tigs came through.  its absolutely debatable.

[Mr. Desmond]

6 minutes ago, colin007 said:

Arnold definitely helped the game to increase.  i would never argue that he didnt.  but i think the game "exploded" after Tigs came through.  its absolutely debatable.

It's a tough comparison -- different eras. I tend to agree with you re: Tiger's effect on the game.

Arnie did popularize the game and increased purse size. I would think he brought more television to the game. But he left, along with Jack, more or less, in the 70's (okay, Jack had game in the 80's). The game lost some popularity.

Tiger ... what can one say? Increased the purse size immensely, almost everyone is a millionaire+ on the PGA Tour,  even mini-tour players make good money (before expenses) and when you include retirement, wow. The Commissioner helped with retirement monies, but Tiger brought people that ordinarily would not play the game into the fold. And then his effect on fitness. These guys are good ... and most are fit. Not too many "Lumpys" on tour any longer.

Different eras - but Tiger energized the game in many ways.

[Fourputt]

4 minutes ago, colin007 said:

Arnold definitely helped the game to increase.  i would never argue that he didnt.  but i think the game "exploded" after Tigs came through.  its absolutely debatable.

Arnie worked to promote and popularize the game.  He was (and is) approachable by anyone.  Arnie likes people and loves to interact with them.  The sort of people that Arnie brought into the game are still playing if they are alive, and if not, usually their children still play.  Palmer's love of the game of golf, it's history and everyone who plays, was always apparent.  Arnie was always an enthusiastic ambassador for golf.

While the game may have grown during Tiger's prime, it was just because of his play, not from any particular effort that he made to make that happen.  He has been notoriously unapproachable for most of his career.  A great many of those who jumped into the game following Tiger's popularity left just as quickly when he faded.  While Tiger clearly loves the competition, I don't see the same sort of dedication to golf the game that Palmer has.  He doesn't inspire the same sort love for golf that Arnie did and does.

6 minutes ago, Mr. Desmond said:

 

Arnie did popularize the game and increased purse size. I would think he brought more television to the game. But he left, along with Jack, more or less, in the 70's (okay, Jack had game in the 80's). The game lost some popularity.

 

Disagree with the last sentence.  The game's growth may have slowed a bit once Jack's competitiveness was on the downturn, but I don't think it ever stopped growing.  I played through that entire period and the courses in the Denver area just kept getting busier throughout the 80's.  New courses opened, aimed at higher end public golfers.  Existing courses had the funds for improvements and expansion.  That isn't a slide, just a sign of controlled growth.  When Tiger came along the growth boomed beyond any possible sustainability.  It was unrealistic to think that it could possibly continue on that pace, and now we are seeing a downturn because of that lack of sustainability.

[Patch]

I have vague memories of Palmer when I was a kid. My dad had something to do with building his dry cleaner establishments. There were onsite meetings. I do remember Palmer asking me (between puffs on his cigarettes) if I wanted to be a golfer. I told him no, that I played baseball. 

As for his impact on the game, I think during his era of golf he did a lot of positive things that set the stage for the game's future, and the players that followed him. 

We all get old, and what ever games we play, they suffer. There is no getting around it . Kudos, and hats off to Mr. Palmer. 

[Mr. Desmond]

12 minutes ago, Fourputt said:

 

Disagree with the last sentence.  The game's growth may have slowed a bit once Jack's competitiveness was on the downturn, but I don't think it ever stopped growing.  I played through that entire period and the courses in the Denver area just kept getting busier throughout the 80's.  New courses opened, aimed at higher end public golfers.  Existing courses had the funds for improvements and expansion.  That isn't a slide, just a sign of controlled growth.  When Tiger came along the growth boomed beyond any possible sustainability.  It was unrealistic to think that it could possibly continue on that pace, and now we are seeing a downturn because of that lack of sustainability.

Disagreement is fine. I just think the pro game lose something until the mid-90's That's when Phil and TIger came on.

As to Palmer, because of his common man, approachable persona and accessibility, I think he is more popular than Tiger as to the person. I remember Palmer getting criticism when he said something to the effect about nonconforming clubs being okay for Joe Average Golfer. But with social media, tv, his tournament and charity work, he is revered.

Tiger -- millions to develop golf and educating children. I think his persona will grow more popular if he allows himself to grow as a human being.

[Patch]

17 minutes ago, Fourputt said:

Arnie worked to promote and popularize the game.  He was (and is) approachable by anyone.  Arnie likes people and loves to interact with them.  The sort of people that Arnie brought into the game are still playing if they are alive, and if not, usually their children still play.  Palmer's love of the game of golf, it's history and everyone who plays, was always apparent.  Arnie was always an enthusiastic ambassador for golf.

While the game may have grown during Tiger's prime, it was just because of his play, not from any particular effort that he made to make that happen.  He has been notoriously unapproachable for most of his career.  A great many of those who jumped into the game following Tiger's popularity left just as quickly when he faded.  While Tiger clearly loves the competition, I don't see the same sort of dedication to golf the game that Palmer has.  He doesn't inspire the same sort love for golf that Arnie did and does.

Well said. 

[ppine]

On 18/03/2016 at 7:55 AM, Gunther said:

It's debatable, I suppose but in my mind Arnold has been far more impactful.  

Rory mentioned it in his presser:

1.  Arnold led the way with endorsements contracts, these guys are making a fortune these days.

2.  He increased US golf participation

3.  He made British Open participation the norm

4.  He essentially started the Senior Tour

5.  He did start The Golf Channel

6.  His NICU in Orlando and his many other charitable endeavors have been immeasurable in terms of lives saved and helping others.

7.  And, hes had an impact on purse size.  

Really no comparison.  Tiger not been around long enough.

Well put. Thank you.

Tiger is wildly popular and helped break the color barrier. He is active with getting kids started in golf especially in the inner-cities.  That is all very commendable.  He even takes his hat off at the end of a round because he watched the older guys that came before.  But Tiger cannot compare to the list above.

Edited March 20, 2016 by ppine

[iacas]

15 minutes ago, ppine said:

But Tiger cannot compare to the list above.

I don't know about that.

1.  Tiger led the way with endorsements contracts across all of sport - he was for awhile the single most widely known athlete around the world.

2.  Tiger increased U.S. golf participation, particularly among athletes. He increased global awareness for golf, too, extending his reach well beyond the U.S.

3.  I think that says more about how lousy the British Open was for a long time than Arnold Palmer.

4.  Nobody really cares that much about the Senior Tour these days.

5.  Tiger is not as old, and is still playing. Even as such he's done a heck of a lot through his foundation. Maybe he'll buy Golf Channel some day… you don't know. Seems unfair to count something Arnie did when he was, what, 60 or so?

6. Tiger started the TWF.

7.  And, Tiger has had a large impact on purse size.

Does that "touch" Arnie's accomplishments? Probably not, particularly with the Golf Channel "bonus" item. But it gets closer than you'd think, otherwise.

[ppine]

And Tiger can't keep his pants zipped and is a terrible role model for kids and adults alike.  Hookers and drugs.

His body is broken and he may be done.

Before Arnold Palmer helped to increase purse sizes, pro golfers had a hard time making a living. Moe Norman  used to sleep in his car.

Edited March 20, 2016 by ppine

[SavvySwede]

15 minutes ago, ppine said:

And Tiger can't keep his pants zipped and is a terrible role model for kids and adults alike.  Hookers and drugs.

His body is broken and he may be done.

Before Arnold Palmer helped to increase purse sizes, pro golfers had a hard time making a living. Moe Norman  used to sleep in his car.

That stuff came later and isn't all that relevant to his contribution to the game, you're just bashing him at this point.

[iacas]

21 minutes ago, ppine said:

And Tiger can't keep his pants zipped and is a terrible role model for kids and adults alike.  Hookers and drugs.

A) Drugs? Have never seen any proof of that. Do you have any?

B) Arnie whored around too. It's nearly fact but I'll let you keep believing he was faithful.

Let's try to not talk about Tiger much in this thread though. OT.

[boogielicious]

29 minutes ago, ppine said:

And Tiger can't keep his pants zipped and is a terrible role model for kids and adults alike.  Hookers and drugs.

His body is broken and he may be done.

Before Arnold Palmer helped to increase purse sizes, pro golfers had a hard time making a living. Moe Norman  used to sleep in his car.

As @iacas said, neither did Arnie. The press just let it side back then. So let's not put him in the Mother Theresa category. Tiger was very approachable until his popularity became a safety issue. Not sure Arnie ever got death threats and needed body guards. Watching Tiger with kids, you see they still think the world of him regardless of your opinion.

Arnie was great for his generation as was Nicklaus for his and Tiger for his. They all boosted the game. I respect all of them for what they have done for the game. I would love to shake each of their hands along with some of the younger players who have taken on that role.

[ppine]

The subject is Arnie. He is a been a good will ambassador for the sport since the early 1950s. He is still with Winnie. He learned to fly a plane so he could be home more.  His tournament in its 38th year.  His children's hospital does some great work. That is my point and I don't care what other golfers are doing.

[iacas]

4 minutes ago, ppine said:

The subject is Arnie. He is a been a good will ambassador for the sport since the early 1950s. He is still with Winnie. He learned to fly a plane so he could be home more.  His tournament in its 38th year.  His children's hospital does some great work. That is my point and I don't care what other golfers are doing.

Winnie died in 1999 and Palmer re-married in 2005.