Presidential Race 2016

[Dave2512]

Why didn't Kasich get more primary votes, I love that guy. 

[Jeremie Boop]

4 hours ago, StevenR84 said:

Then say it for every judge, every time. The problem is, you can't. If Trump has a white judge of similar background, is it safe to assume that judge cannot impartially judge him because of his similar heritage? Insert this example for every race,religion,background. It would bring the judicial system to a halt.

Trump has said some inflammatory things about Mexicans, so it stands to reason that he may think a judge whose heritage is Mexican may have trouble being impartial. I would say the same thing about a judge who was homosexual presiding over a case where the person in question was known to make homophobic slurs, or a female judge presiding over a case where the person in question was known to make sexist comments or have misogynistic views. Now, I trust judges to be able to know that if they can't be impartial to recuse themselves, but I don't think it's exactly ridiculous to think that a judge may hold some prejudice in these scenarios.

[saevel25]

6 minutes ago, Dave2512 said:

Why didn't Kasich get more primary votes, I love that guy. 

I think he would have if it was just Kasich versus Trump early on. Cruz took a giant chunk of the voters. It's also weighing who you think you like versus who you think can beat Trump. Kasich was the only GOP candidate, during the entire Primary to routinely, poll better than Hillary. He just didn't stand out. People like their reality TV shows. 

[Jeremie Boop]

5 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

I think he would have if it was just Kasich versus Trump early on. Cruz took a giant chunk of the voters. It's also weighing who you think you like versus who you think can beat Trump. Kasich was the only GOP candidate, during the entire Primary to routinely, poll better than Hillary. He just didn't stand out. People like their reality TV shows. 

Yeah, Kasich was by far my pick, but it was very clear early on that he really didn't stand a chance with the strong personalities that were in the race.

[Golfingdad]

28 minutes ago, Jeremie Boop said:

Trump has said some inflammatory things about Mexicans, so it stands to reason that he may think a judge whose heritage is Mexican may have trouble being impartial. I would say the same thing about a judge who was homosexual presiding over a case where the person in question was known to make homophobic slurs, or a female judge presiding over a case where the person in question was known to make sexist comments or have misogynistic views. Now, I trust judges to be able to know that if they can't be impartial to recuse themselves, but I don't think it's exactly ridiculous to think that a judge may hold some prejudice in these scenarios.

I don't know why you're trying to sugar coat it.  "Saying inflammatory things about Mexicans" is a really polite way of saying he's a ****ing racist.

[newtogolf]

44 minutes ago, Jeremie Boop said:

Trump has said some inflammatory things about Mexicans, so it stands to reason that he may think a judge whose heritage is Mexican may have trouble being impartial. I would say the same thing about a judge who was homosexual presiding over a case where the person in question was known to make homophobic slurs, or a female judge presiding over a case where the person in question was known to make sexist comments or have misogynistic views. Now, I trust judges to be able to know that if they can't be impartial to recuse themselves, but I don't think it's exactly ridiculous to think that a judge may hold some prejudice in these scenarios.

It wasn't just that he is Mexican, but also that he was part of a pro-Mexican group, "La Raza Lawyers" that supports Latino communities (including illegal immigrants) and likely has taken offense to the things Trump has said.  There is a conflict of interest, not because he's Mexican but because he belongs to a group that fights for Mexican causes and obviously sees Trump as the opposition.  

If an Italian judge (who belonged to pro Italian community groups) was presiding over a case that involved an individual that had spoken out publicly against Italians and the defendant asked the judge to recuse himself would that be considered racist?  

Judges are asked to recuse themselves when one of the sides believe that he or she may be biased, there's nothing legally wrong with it.  

[Dave2512]

13 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

I don't know why you're trying to sugar coat it.  "Saying inflammatory things about Mexicans" is a really polite way of saying he's a ****ing racist.

There was sugar on that? Apparently anyone different isn't capable of being objective ever. 

[StevenR84]

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/28/455 

(a)

Any justice, judge, or magistrate judge of the United States shall disqualify himself in any proceeding in which his impartiality might reasonably be questioned.

 

This is a very vague term, probably done so on purpose, and again could apply to almost every situation possible. That link will show the other reasons that a judge would disqualify themselves an I don't think this particular judge meets any of those.

8 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

If an Italian judge (who belonged to pro Italian community groups) was presiding over a case that involved an individual that had spoken out publicly against Italians and the defendant asked the judge to recuse himself would that be considered racist?

Yes.

[Jeremie Boop]

6 minutes ago, Dave2512 said:

There was sugar on that? Apparently anyone different isn't capable of being objective ever. 

... Really? OK then, if that's how you want to take that. 

It's a pretty ridiculous way to interpret what I said though.

[Patch]

51 minutes ago, Jeremie Boop said:

Trump has said some inflammatory things about Mexicans, so it stands to reason that he may think a judge whose heritage is Mexican may have trouble being impartial. I would say the same thing about a judge who was homosexual presiding over a case where the person in question was known to make homophobic slurs, or a female judge presiding over a case where the person in question was known to make sexist comments or have misogynistic views. Now, I trust judges to be able to know that if they can't be impartial to recuse themselves, but I don't think it's exactly ridiculous to think that a judge may hold some prejudice in these scenarios.

I might be mistaken, but I have yet to hear any "inflammatory" remarks by Trump about legalized Hispanics. I have not been following this election cycle for the past few weeks, so it's possible I missed something. 

[saevel25]

1 minute ago, Patch said:

I might be mistaken, but I have yet to hear any "inflammatory" remarks by Trump about legalized Hispanics. I have not been following this election cycle for the past few weeks, so it's possible I missed something. 

"When Mexico sends its people," Trump said during his presidential announcement, "they're not sending the best. They're not sending you, they're sending people that have lots of problems and they're bringing those problems. They're bringing drugs, they're bringing crime. They're rapists and some, I assume, are good people, but I speak to border guards and they're telling us what we're getting."

Note he doesn't say illegal immigrants. He calls all people who cross the border not Mexico's best people. That they are druggies, criminals, rapists. 

 

[Jeremie Boop]

6 minutes ago, Patch said:

I might be mistaken, but I have yet to hear any "inflammatory" remarks by Trump about legalized Hispanics. I have not been following this election cycle for the past few weeks, so it's possible I missed something. 

He didn't say anything about people born here or who have come here legally as far as I'm aware, but plenty of legal immigrants and people who are of Mexican decent really dislike him, to the point that could be considered hate, for what he's said regarding illegal immigrants and his "build a wall" talk. Now, not all of them do, I know people on both sides. Some who support him and others would probably like to see him keel over dead tomorrow. I don't automatically assume people think one way or the other, I prefer to let them express how they feel on their own. I can't even say I blame them for not liking him for what he has said. I'm very disappointed that he's who we have as a Republican candidate, but there's nothing to be done about it.

3 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

"When Mexico sends its people," Trump said during his presidential announcement, "they're not sending the best. They're not sending you, they're sending people that have lots of problems and they're bringing those problems. They're bringing drugs, they're bringing crime. They're rapists and some, I assume, are good people, but I speak to border guards and they're telling us what we're getting."

Note he doesn't say illegal immigrants. He calls all people who cross the border not Mexico's best people. That they are druggies, criminals, rapists. 

 

It's generally understood/accepted by most people that he was speaking of illegal immigrants, at least among the people I know and talk to. Nobody I know has ever been upset about people coming here by legal means, but they are almost universally unhappy about the large number of illegal immigrants. Granted, this was just another example of Trump saying things in a poor way. Which is one of the biggest reasons that he just doesn't make sense as a President.

 

Edited June 10, 2016 by Jeremie Boop

[Dave2512]

4 minutes ago, Jeremie Boop said:

He didn't say anything about people born here or who have come here legally as far as I'm aware, but plenty of legal immigrants and people who are of Mexican decent really dislike him, to the point that could be considered hate, for what he's said regarding illegal immigrants and his "build a wall" talk. Now, not all of them do, I know people on both sides. Some who support him and others would probably like to see him keel over dead tomorrow. I don't automatically assume people think one way or the other, I prefer to let them express how they feel on their own. I can't even say I blame them for not liking him for what he has said. I'm very disappointed that he's who we have as a Republican candidate, but there's nothing to be done about it.

Except that judge, seriously. 

[Jeremie Boop]

4 minutes ago, Dave2512 said:

Except that judge, seriously. 

I never once said that I thought the judge wasn't impartial. I simply said it's not unreasonable for someone to think he wouldn't be given this information:

31 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

It wasn't just that he is Mexican, but also that he was part of a pro-Mexican group, "La Raza Lawyers" that supports Latino communities (including illegal immigrants) and likely has taken offense to the things   

It really doesn't seem all that crazy. Even then, though, I don't really have any opinion on whether or not he is unable to be impartial. I really do trust a judge to decide for themselves if they can be impartial or not. If this judge trusts himself to be impartial I trust that he is. The difference is, I don't expect everyone to feel/believe the same as me so I can understand if someone else doesn't. I have to ability to understand or accept that other people have a different point of view or opinion. So, perhaps you can stop assuming you know how I think or feel about this.

[Dave2512]

8 minutes ago, Jeremie Boop said:

I never once said that I thought the judge wasn't impartial. 

Forget him being impartial you just posted you haven't heard Trump saying anything about people born here or that came here legally. Also previously mentioned Curiel being from Indiana. He said it there wasn't any question who he was talking about or where they were born. He's a Mexican I'm building a wall. 

[iacas]

6 hours ago, Golfingdad said:

I'll take "Splitting Hairs" for $1000 please, Alex.

Really?

What race is "American"? (And I'll even pretend we're just talking about the U.S. because even people from Peru are "Americans.")

Or… what race is "South African"?

[Jeremie Boop]

13 minutes ago, Dave2512 said:

Forget him being impartial you just posted you haven't heard Trump saying anything about people born here or that came here legally. Also previously mentioned Curiel being from Indiana. He said it there wasn't any question who he was talking about or where thery were born. He's a Mexican I'm building a wall. 

I mentioned Indiana in direct response to someone saying that. I'm not going to get in a debate about who he was talking about, you believe one thing and I believe another. I'm just going to go ahead and bow out of this thread. It's mostly just people who hate Trump and people who support him and I'm neither. So it's pretty pointless for me to continue.

Edited June 10, 2016 by Jeremie Boop

[saevel25]

7 minutes ago, iacas said:

What race is "American"? (And I'll even pretend we're just talking about the U.S. because even people from Peru are "Americans.")

I have to agree, American is not a race. England is not a race. Mexico is not a race. Race, is a social construct based on groups of people who share similar and distinct physical characteristics. Though it was originally used to define nationality. Race can encompass many nationalities. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_ethnicity_in_the_United_States#Racial_makeup_of_the_U.S._population

---

In technical terms he was not specifically talking about a person's race since he was talking about a specific nationality. I don't think he cares if that person was actually from Panama, Peru, or any Latin American country as long as they crossed the border he would probably classify them as from Mexico. 

The tone and wording is very similar to how classic racists talk. If we want to break down racism for what it is, a race-based view with prejudice, stereotyping, and discrimination. Even though he was not specifically targeting a race the manor of his speak hits tones of racism. 

Prejudices, Stereotyping and Discrimination are all the same no matter who they are targeting, race, religion, sexual orientation, sexual identification, economical level (rich or poor).