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Short Game Issues!


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1 hour ago, iacas said:

Actually, the pitch shot we teach is almost the opposite of the full swing in many ways.

Well I disagree it's the start of the swing just like the full swing and would expect similar results. I say this because I have a short equal to Phil's and adopt such techniques .

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20 minutes ago, Mike Boatright said:

Well I disagree it's the start of the swing just like the full swing and would expect similar results. I say this because I have a short equal to Phil's and adopt such techniques .

I'm comfortable with you disagreeing. The pitch shot we teach is not much at all like the full swing.

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1 minute ago, iacas said:

'm comfortable with you disagreeing. The pitch shot we teach is not much at all like the full swing.

Well yes your correct it's not like a full swing in fact it has more wrist action and is very much shorter. I'm just saying it has a lot of elements in it like your set up can dictate a host of issues even on a 12 yard chip.

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4 minutes ago, Mike Boatright said:

Well yes your correct it's not like a full swing in fact it has more wrist action and is very much shorter. I'm just saying it has a lot of elements in it like your set up can dictate a host of issues even on a 12 yard chip.

@Mike Boatright, this feels like an example of you not really reading what's written, and not looking around first to know what we're talking about with some of these things.

@saevel25 talked only about pitches, really, in his first post. Pitches and chips use different mechanics. The differences between the full swing and the pitch motion we teach are several:

  • Far narrower stance.
  • Weight pre-set left, stays left.
  • Wrist hinge early, toe rotated up early in the backswing. Handle moves very little.
  • Super soft grip.
  • Float load feel on the downswing, largely pivot driven.
  • Club engages with the bounce, not the leading edge, and hitting behind the ball a bit is fine.
  • Wrists collapse and elbows fold softly in follow-through.
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3 hours ago, iacas said:

@Mike Boatright, this feels like an example of you not really reading what's written, and not looking around first to know what we're talking about with some of these things.

@saevel25 talked only about pitches, really, in his first post. Pitches and chips use different mechanics. The differences between the full swing and the pitch motion we teach are several:

  • Far narrower stance.
  • Weight pre-set left, stays left.
  • Wrist hinge early, toe rotated up early in the backswing. Handle moves very little.
  • Super soft grip.
  • Float load feel on the downswing, largely pivot driven.
  • Club engages with the bounce, not the leading edge, and hitting behind the ball a bit is fine.
  • Wrists collapse and elbows fold softly in follow-through.

No I read most of it especially his issues. I think what you guys are teaching is fine :) I use a bit of a more advanced method and rarely use a basic chip and if it call for one It's usually use an 8 iron or putt it. I was just trying to help the guy out. I rarely hit bad chips,pitches or floppers I mean im actually very,very good at it I would say pga tour level minus my sand game.. To me all chips, pitches and floppers are basically the same minus swing plane and swing length. Assume your on a flat lie I think the stance should be open with a sw on a medium rough lie. The weight should be 50/50 to 55/50 forward any more and you get steep or deloft and get terrible distance control. I use an inside out pitch motion and an outside cut motion to produce a flight. I believe that all bad chips are caused by your sternum and shoulders being to tilted under to the right causing you to chunk and pull. If your stance is open your shoulders should match that line in a level unison combined with the 50/55 set up you should never hit a mis hit or chip and it's like a full swing just a mini motion.

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18 hours ago, JetFan1983 said:

And I know a lot of guys here are saying "pivot!" but you can over-do that with short game too. Need to speed up arms relative to the pivot sometimes too. I'm just talking in generalities here. Right arm only short game practice though is good at matching arms and pivot in general, and getting you back on plane. 

The right-hand only drive works for me because it "forces" me to pivot correctly while keeping the right arm "passive" (along for the ride feel), which I think is typically good for short game shots. 

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3 hours ago, mvmac said:

The right-hand only drive works for me because it "forces" me to pivot correctly while keeping the right arm "passive" (along for the ride feel), which I think is typically good for short game shots. 

Haha, wow. Exact opposite for me. Feels to me like the right arm is driving the entire motion, with the body coming along for the ride. Funny how feels work!

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5 hours ago, Mike Boatright said:

No I read most of it especially his issues. I think what you guys are teaching is fine :) I use a bit of a more advanced method and rarely use a basic chip and if it call for one It's usually use an 8 iron or putt it. I was just trying to help the guy out. I rarely hit bad chips,pitches or floppers I mean im actually very,very good at it I would say pga tour level minus my sand game.. To me all chips, pitches and floppers are basically the same minus swing plane and swing length. Assume your on a flat lie I think the stance should be open with a sw on a medium rough lie. The weight should be 50/50 to 55/50 forward any more and you get steep or deloft and get terrible distance control. I use an inside out pitch motion and an outside cut motion to produce a flight. I believe that all bad chips are caused by your sternum and shoulders being to tilted under to the right causing you to chunk and pull. If your stance is open your shoulders should match that line in a level unison combined with the 50/55 set up you should never hit a mis hit or chip and it's like a full swing just a mini motion.

Feel free to share a video of your "more advanced technique" and trust me no one is impressed when you tell us how great you are at it minus the sand game of course.

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18 minutes ago, Abu3baid said:

Feel free to share a video of your "more advanced technique" and trust me no one is impressed when you tell us how great you are at it minus the sand game of course.

Oh your not impressed were you supposed to be? For one i'm in my office right now so I can't display a video and next time I go out the course I doubt ill post one from my chincy 12 megapixel camera. Responses like these are non productive and ridiculous! I was adding some relevant information to help the poster here and was trying to back up this with the fact that i'm very good at chipping. What i'm saying works wonders and is basically the most effective way to get up and down, and if he trys what i'm saying it could fix his flaws.

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1 minute ago, Mike Boatright said:

Oh your not impressed were you supposed to be? For one i'm in my office right now so I can't display a video and next time I go out the course I doubt ill post one from my chincy 12 megapixel camera. Responses like these are non productive and ridiculous! I was adding some relevant information to help the poster here and was trying to back up this with the fact that i'm very good at chipping. What i'm saying works wonders and is basically the most effective way to get up and down, and if he trys what i'm saying it could fix his flaws.

I think you're probably the only person in this thread who is talking about chipping. We are talking about pitching, which is very different than chipping. You seem to be intimating that they are basically the same thing, which is really not helping your credibility. 

I could be wrong though, I rarely make it all the way thorough your posts, sorry, but your grammar is difficult to wade through and I often have to read your sentences more than once to make sense of them.   

Slow down when you post, take some time to re-read before hitting submit. No one is asking you to be Shakespeare, but a little more effort will make it easier for the group understand your point of view. 

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31 minutes ago, Ernest Jones said:

I think you're probably the only person in this thread who is talking about chipping. We are talking about pitching, which is very different than chipping. You seem to be intimating that they are basically the same thing, which is really not helping your credibility.

Even then you can hit chips with a pitchy motion. It's engaging the bounce or not.

Yes, I was talking about pitching. As Allen Iverson would say, 'We talking about pitching man, we talking about pitching, we aint talking about the game, we talking about pitching.' ;)

33 minutes ago, Ernest Jones said:

I could be wrong though, I rarely make it all the way thorough your posts, sorry, but your grammar is difficult to wade through and I often have to read your sentences more than once to make sense of them. 

A bit off-topic and isn't there a grammar thread already... :whistle:

 

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42 minutes ago, Ernest Jones said:

I think you're probably the only person in this thread who is talking about chipping. We are talking about pitching, which is very different than chipping. You seem to be intimating that they are basically the same thing, which is really not helping your credibility. 

I could be wrong though, I rarely make it all the way thorough your posts, sorry, but your grammar is difficult to wade through and I often have to read your sentences more than once to make sense of them.   

Slow down when you post, take some time to re-read before hitting submit. No one is asking you to be Shakespeare, but a little more effort will make it easier for the group understand your point of view. 

Yeah ok I write run on sentences ;-) Anyway chipping is between 4 and 24 yards. Pitching is less the 60 yards with a minimum of 38 yards. I treat them with the same ball flight dynamics as a chip instead they are just amplified. I will say 50 yards pitches are kinda tough even the pros have difficulty with em. There is always a lw shot for a 50 yard pitch or a high cut gapper. It's a hard shot and if the poster was referring to 50 yard pitches directly than I will say he's in the same boat as everyone else cause they are hard. You have a shot that requires less than full commitment on the backswing,yet a fullish finish on the followthrough. I'd recommend a 7 iron for 50 yards get that pitch down until it's easy then go back to a wedge ittl seem like a piece of cake.

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2 hours ago, saevel25 said:

A bit off-topic and isn't there a grammar thread already... :whistle:

 

Yes and you figure prominently in it! :-) (as do I :-P).

Any update on your part? Were you able to work with some of the suggestions? I did a bit yesterday and focused on the "dealing card" feel for my right hand and the pivot. I would like a bit more discussion on the right shoulder comment from @iacas, although the Utley video Steve posted talked about standing tall.

 

2 hours ago, Mike Boatright said:

Yeah ok I write run on sentences ;-) Anyway chipping is between 4 and 24 yards. Pitching is less the 60 yards with a minimum of 38 yards. I treat them with the same ball flight dynamics as a chip instead they are just amplified. I will say 50 yards pitches are kinda tough even the pros have difficulty with em. There is always a lw shot for a 50 yard pitch or a high cut gapper. It's a hard shot and if the poster was referring to 50 yard pitches directly than I will say he's in the same boat as everyone else cause they are hard. You have a shot that requires less than full commitment on the backswing,yet a fullish finish on the followthrough. I'd recommend a 7 iron for 50 yards get that pitch down until it's easy then go back to a wedge ittl seem like a piece of cake.

Mike,

Statements like this make it difficult for us to take what you write seriously. They are absolute and arbitrary at the same time. 

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17 minutes ago, Mike Boatright said:

Yeah ok I write run on sentences ;-) Anyway chipping is between 4 and 24 yards. Pitching is less the 60 yards with a minimum of 38 yards. I treat them with the same ball flight dynamics as a chip instead they are just amplified. I will say 50 yards pitches are kinda tough even the pros have difficulty with em. There is always a lw shot for a 50 yard pitch or a high cut gapper. It's a hard shot and if the poster was referring to 50 yard pitches directly than I will say he's in the same boat as everyone else cause they are hard. You have a shot that requires less than full commitment on the backswing,yet a fullish finish on the followthrough. I'd recommend a 7 iron for 50 yards get that pitch down until it's easy then go back to a wedge ittl seem like a piece of cake.

You can hit pitches 4-24 yards and you can hit chips well beyond 24 yards. It's not the distance or the fly/roll ratio that separates the two, it's the mechanics. Chipping is contacting the ball then ground with the leading edge and shaft lean. Pitching is contacting the ground then ball with bounce first contact and little to no shaft lean (or even negative shaft lean). The mechanics are in no way the same. 

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48 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

Any update on your part? Were you able to work with some of the suggestions? I did a bit yesterday and focused on the "dealing card" feel for my right hand and the pivot. I would like a bit more discussion on the right shoulder comment from @iacas, although the Utley video Steve posted talked about standing tall.

Probably not till next week. I'll do some one arm stuff indoors.

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1 hour ago, Ernest Jones said:

pitching is contacting the ground then ball with bounce first contact and little to no shaft lean (or even negative shaft lean). The mechanics are in no way the same

Even flop shots have shaft lean in no way to you ever want negative shaft lean unless maybe it's a severe uphill bunker shot or something and you don't want to dig even then neutral at best.

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4 hours ago, Mike Boatright said:

Anyway chipping is between 4 and 24 yards. Pitching is less the 60 yards with a minimum of 38 yards.

What the heck do you do from 25 to 37 yards? :content:

I've broken your "rule" many times and so have a lot of pros.

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2 minutes ago, mvmac said:

What the heck do you do from 25 to 37 yards? :content:

I've broken your "rule" many times and so have a lot of pros.

Texas wedge? That might prove to be a little difficult over a bunker or something. :-D

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Note: This thread is 1838 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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