Standing on Tee Marker for Aiding a Swing

[iacas]

I finally heard back from five people who are either with the USGA or who teach USGA rules clinics… To a man, they said that though there was no rule explicitly disallowing it, they would penalize the player in each instance. I respect their time and didn't wish to press them further, so I took only the initial response.

Two noted that 13-3 and 13-3/1 would play a role in their invocation of 1-4.

Another mentioned in a very brief response that tee markers are not designed or intended to be stood upon, alluding to 14-3, I think.

Three noted that it should be obvious that tee markers do not exist to aid the player in making a swing.

One mentioned that he'd follow up with me after talking with the RC, but I didn't want to wait and I don't expect to hear from him. He's a busy guy.

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I had typed this up prior to getting the responses…

On May 29, 2016 at 2:01 PM, David in FL said:

Intent is not component of rule 13-3, building a stance.

No, and in fact, 13-3 says in its entirety:

Quote

13-3. Building Stance 

A player is entitled to place his feet firmly in taking his stance, but he must not build a stance.

And…

Quote

13-3/1 - 

Standing on Mat on Teeing Ground

Q.Is it permissible for a player to carry a mat and stand on it when playing from the teeing ground?

A.No. The player would be building a stance in breach of Rule 13-3.

For situations not covered by the rules, 1-4 says to use equity - treat like situations alike.

Just as you can shuffle your feet around in a bunker to "firmly" take your stance, you can't shuffle so much sand as that LPGA Tour player was penalized for doing last year (IIRC).

Crap. Two years ago.

[DaveP043]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

I finally heard back from five people who are either with the USGA or who teach USGA rules clinics… To a man, they said that though there was no rule explicitly disallowing it, they would penalize the player in each instance. I respect their time and didn't wish to press them further, so I took only the initial response.

Two noted that 13-3 and 13-3/1 would play a role in their invocation of 1-4.

Another mentioned in a very brief response that tee markers are not designed or intended to be stood upon, alluding to 14-3, I think.

Three noted that it should be obvious that tee markers do not exist to aid the player in making a swing.

For situations not covered by the rules, 1-4 says to use equity - treat like situations alike.

Thanks for researching this.  I haven't read back, but I think (I hope) I came down on the same side.  It just seems wrong, but I couldn't find a specific rule or decision to back up that impression, and for every rule that pointed in that direction, I could find a reason that the specific rule didn't fit.  It was an interesting discussion of an almost completely impractical situation.  Its never a bad idea to force us to dig deep into the Rules and Decisions to support our opinions.

[iacas]

3 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

an almost completely impractical situation

Important to remember that, too.

[Fourputt]

11 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

It was an interesting discussion of an almost completely impractical situation.  Its never a bad idea to force us to dig deep into the Rules and Decisions to support our opinions.

 

7 minutes ago, iacas said:

Important to remember that, too.

Yeah.  If I'd encountered such a situation prior to this discussion, I'd have probably not thought about calling a penalty, especially after the player pull hooked his tee shot out of bounds because of the extreme upward club path. 

[Rulesman]

Well, I was wrong. From the USGA

 Standing on a tee-marker that is already there is permissible.

 

 

 

Edited June 6, 2016 by Rulesman

[iacas]

10 minutes ago, Rulesman said:

Well, I was wrong. From the USGA

 Standing on a tee-marker that is already there is permissible.

That's directly the opposite of what I was told:

I will add that I finally (and just now) heard back from the USGA's email-in thing, and the email said exactly what you posted above.

So… there's as much of a disconnect within the USGA as there is within this topic.

So after all this, we're right back where we started.

[Rulesman]

B** S***** ?

[Chilli Dipper]

Alas, an official from the USGA has replied to the inquiry I submitted in response to this thread, and the "standing on a tee marker is A-OK" crowd is correct. Since the tee-marker was already there, it isn't an artificial device; since the player didn't move the object, it is not building a stance.

That said, it's still a ridiculous idea to stand on the tee-marker as you swing. I think using the tee-marker to get the feel of the correct spine angle, then addressing the ball normally, would be more effective.

 

[Rulesman]

Well, I suppose it fits in with being able to place the ball on a convenient tee when taking a preferred lie.

[iacas]

14 minutes ago, Rulesman said:

B** S***** ?

Yeah. I think the same guy responded to all.

9 minutes ago, Chilli Dipper said:

Alas, an official from the USGA has replied to the inquiry I submitted in response to this thread, and the "standing on a tee marker is A-OK" crowd is correct.

Not willing to concede that yet.

Also don't care too much… because there likelihood of this occurring is slim to none. Really this is a theoretical discussion.

[Chilli Dipper]

8 minutes ago, iacas said:

Not willing to concede that yet.

Also don't care too much… because there likelihood of this occurring is slim to none. Really this is a theoretical discussion.

Yeah, this is one of those "if a tour pro tried this in a tournament, the rules would be amended to ban it the following Monday" type of scenarios.

[iacas]

I'll put it this way for now. I can see both sides of the argument and they both make sense. I just like the original side I picked. So too did the people with whom I spoke. (Emailed)

[Rulesman]

9 hours ago, Rulesman said:

Well, I was wrong. From the USGA

 Standing on a tee-marker that is already there is permissible.

 

 

 

I haven't yet heard from the R&A.