Princeton University Banning the Word ‘Man’

[Strandly]

2 hours ago, grantisadrummer said:

I completely agree. This particular case isn't really moving towards being more PC, rather towards a misunderstanding of some pretty basic linguistics. My point wasn't that we should remove these sort of words, or enact rules that stop us from using them. I was meaning on a more personal level.

Example: I have a transgender friend who has told me that she doesn't want me to use phrases like "hey man" or "hey guys" etc, because they make her feel uncomfortable. So I respect her wishes and try not to use these phrases around her (even though I regularly use these words when talking to other female friends who don't mind it). 

I don't care whether or not it actually offends her, because it's not a difficult thing for me to do, and it doesn't really matter when there are other words I can use.

 

It's not good enough that this person knows you're not trying to offend them when you use those words?

That's another problem I have with the PC nonsense, it's such an intellectually lazy position it's actually (and ironically) offensive.

[grantisadrummer]

2 hours ago, Strandly said:

It's not good enough that this person knows you're not trying to offend them when you use those words?

I don't think the intent behind a word can deem whether or not it is offensive.

 

[Strandly]

16 minutes ago, grantisadrummer said:

I don't think the intent behind a word can deem whether or not it is offensive.

 

Really?  So there's no such thing as an insult?

[grantisadrummer]

8 minutes ago, Strandly said:

Really?  So there's no such thing as an insult?

There is, but it's not an insult just because I intend it to be one. I could call you a table, meaning it to be offensive, but unless you find it offensive then it's not an insult. The same goes the other way. Throughout my childhood I used the word f****t a lot (everybody at school did, I didn't know any better), and though I never hated gay people or intended to harm them through my use of said word, that doesn't mean I never offended anyone by using it.

[David in FL]

3 hours ago, grantisadrummer said:

I don't think the intent behind a word can deem whether or not it is offensive.

 

Sadly, too many people these days spend an inordinate part of their day actively trying to find insult when none was ever intended.

That in itself insults me.  They should stop...

[JonMA1]

Does anyone remember when Human Resource Departments were called Personnel Departments? Princeton should have seen this coming and left if alone.

[boogielicious]

On August 19, 2016 at 8:01 PM, David in FL said:

A private, extraordinarily liberal school.

Make no mistake, their intent is to influence their staff, to further influence their students and to subsequently continue to permeate society with this type of nonsense.  No surprise, it's what they do.

 

On August 19, 2016 at 8:16 PM, newtogolf said:

Agreed, the Ivy league schools are the most liberal and PC schools of all.  

And yet they produce Presidents, both liberal and conservative. Curious.

[David in FL]

1 hour ago, boogielicious said:

 

And yet they produce Presidents, both liberal and conservative. Curious.

What's so curious?  Not all people choose their universities purely on political or social ideation.

[14ledo81]

On 8/20/2016 at 7:43 AM, David in FL said:

Sadly, too many people these days spend an inordinate part of their day actively trying to find insult when none was ever intended.

That in itself insults me.  They should stop...

No doubt.  I have always said that I have been offended by the football team name..........................................."the 49er's".....

Not nice to exploit all of those miners that were just trying to make a living.

[Gator Hazard]

I propose humanity be changed to hubeingity. We are now all hubeings. Perbeings need to conform. Any males that still identify as males caught using the word man or son will be subjected to 200 hours of feminist re-education to include a minimum of 20 viewings of the Vagina Monologues and Bridges Over Madison County.  

Examples of Acceptable conversations:

how was your day?

did you see the new dancing with the stars?

would you like to watch the sunset and talk about your feelings?

Examples of unacceptable conversations: 

What's for dinner tonight?

Can we watch the Bears game?

may I go out with my male identifying male friends for some guy time?

(just having some fun with it)

[NJpatbee]

I think this just comes down to an HR Department trying to document that it does not discriminate by gender to avoid and claims of discrimination in the future.  Of course most of it is absurd and I suspect the authors of the advisory know it but are obligated to protect the organization.

It would be depressing to think of a future where we have been PC'ed into oblivion and our talk is so non-specific that we cannot communicate: " Last night a person entered a liquor store and robbed it at gunpoint.  Witnesses described the perpetrator as a person.  If you know or see someone that fits this description please call 911".   

One of the advantages of getting older is that I just speak my mind on some issues.  I would never intentionally hurt someone's feelings with derogatory racial or ethnic slurs and have been raised to treat everyone with dignity.  But I just recently learned that I am not supposed to use the word "Oriental" and should say "Asians" instead.  Why? Oriental just means someone from the Far East, such as China or Japan.  Yes, they are Asians,  but so are Indians and Afghans who have cultures different than those in the "Orient".    I am too old to buy into such BS, along with the HR cover your A$$ guidelines at Princeton. 

[DaveP043]

1 hour ago, NJpatbee said:

One of the advantages of getting older is that I just speak my mind on some issues.  I would never intentionally hurt someone's feelings with derogatory racial or ethnic slurs and have been raised to treat everyone with dignity.  But I just recently learned that I am not supposed to use the word "Oriental" and should say "Asians" instead.  Why? Oriental just means someone from the Far East, such as China or Japan.  Yes, they are Asians,  but so are Indians and Afghans who have cultures different than those in the "Orient".    I am too old to buy into such BS, along with the HR cover your A$$ guidelines at Princeton. 

I had to laugh, I'm also getting old enough that I'm almost impervious to any attempts to PC-ify me.  Likewise, I try to treat everyone I meet with respect, until I find out that they don't deserve it.  I treat each person as an individual, not as a member of whatever minority group they may fall under.  but I use descriptive terms that have long gone out of style.  If your grandparents were born in this country, you don't get to be a (pick your minority, African/Polish/Asian/Irish/whatever)-hyphenated-American, you're just an American in my book.

So I say, go ahead and PC-ify the HR language, it doesn't affect me, and from where I sit, makes an outstanding university look just a little silly.  But then I play golf, and lots of times golf makes ME look kinda silly. 

[newtogolf]

10 hours ago, boogielicious said:

 

And yet they produce Presidents, both liberal and conservative. Curious.

Not surprising or curious.  Most college kids lean left and some become more conservative as they get older.  

[jsgolfer]

At least one University has taken a stance.  

Our commitment to academic freedom means that we do not support so-called 'trigger warnings,' we do not cancel invited speakers because their topics might prove controversial, and we do not condone the creation of intellectual 'safe spaces' where individuals can retreat from ideas and perspectives at odds with their own," the letter said.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-university-of-chicago-safe-spaces-letter-met-20160825-story.html

 

 

[iacas]

2 hours ago, NJpatbee said:

I think this just comes down to an HR Department trying to document that it does not discriminate by gender to avoid and claims of discrimination in the future.  Of course most of it is absurd and I suspect the authors of the advisory know it but are obligated to protect the organization.

People keep missing out on this fact, it seems…

On August 19, 2016 at 6:40 PM, iacas said:

Guys, this is an HR department setting guidelines for their employees.

https://www.princeton.edu/hr/progserv/communications/inclusivelanguage.pdf

They're not forcing students to do this or whatever. It's an HR department trying to be sensitive to their employees, prospective and current.

 

[newtogolf]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

People keep missing out on this fact, it seems…

 

I don't think we're missing out on it, I see it as a warning sign of things to come.  Maybe it never happens but some crazy stuff is happening at colleges these days.  History books are being re-written, colleges are firing administrators because students are afraid of words written in chalk on the sidewalk, this latest memo is just another step in reprogramming people to the new PC speak.  

The goal of HR is to make those words taboo, so people don't use them and fear being thought of poorly if they do.  Once they stop using them with their peers it will certainly carry over to their classrooms and students.    

[iacas]

13 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

I don't think we're missing out on it, I see it as a warning sign of things to come.  Maybe it never happens but some crazy stuff is happening at colleges these days.  History books are being re-written, colleges are firing administrators because students are afraid of words written in chalk on the sidewalk, this latest memo is just another step in reprogramming people to the new PC speak.  

The goal of HR is to make those words taboo, so people don't use them and fear being thought of poorly if they do.  Once they stop using them with their peers it will certainly carry over to their classrooms and students.    

Yeah, okay.

I don't buy it, but go ahead and send me a tin foil hat should I ever need it. I'm sure you have some extras.

It's a HUMAN RESOURCES department. They are asking their employees to say things that respect the fact that women can be scientists and administrators and custodians and chefs and whatever, too.

Not everything is the start of a slippery slope.

[newtogolf]

3 hours ago, iacas said:

Yeah, okay.

I don't buy it, but go ahead and send me a tin foil hat should I ever need it. I'm sure you have some extras.

It's a HUMAN RESOURCES department. They are asking their employees to say things that respect the fact that women can be scientists and administrators and custodians and chefs and whatever, too.

Not everything is the start of a slippery slope.

I don't have any tin foil hats that would fit your head.  

I agree not everything is the start of a slippery slope but we've seen the PC push in other areas and get their way so it's not like a precedent hasn't been established.