Important rules question with a hazard

[TryingtoPlay]

Well, I played quite an eventful nine holes of golf today at a local municipal course. The fifth hole at the golf course is an uphill 380 yard dogleg right par 4 with trees right and a small pond to the front left of the green. Needless to say, I made quite a mess of the hole today and ended up just to the right of the pond (although down in the gully with no stance and part of the ball submerged). Amazingly, the pond is unmarked on the ground, but it does state in the yardage book that shots in the water "incur a one shot penalty." Being that there are no hazard markers I did not know what to do. I am literally 15 feet below the surrounding area with a wall in front of me and to my right. My stance is in the water. So, other than find a new golf course, I didn't know what the heck I was supposed to do. Anyways, I ultimately elected to take an unplayable. After picking up and dropping two club lengths backwards, the ball proceeds to role half way down the slope and literally in a hole that covered the entire bottom half of the golf ball. I still have virtually no stance, but I was able to hit at it which ultimately plopped down into the water anyways as the ground totally caught the clubhead and turned it over. At this point, all I could do was just laugh. I am totally unsure as to what I should have done.

Thank you

 

[TryingtoPlay]

Per the rules of the game, I think that I probably played it correctly. My playing partner was adamant afterwards that the ball was obviously in a hazard to begin with and I should have simply played it as such. He then informed me that once I drop, the ball will be in play and I should play it from there as if I had not taken an unplayable and subsequently gone into the pond. Hence, this begs the second question. If I did misplay the situation, the strokes that I accumulated would obviously still count would they not?

[bkuehn1952]

18 minutes ago, TryingtoPlay said:

...My playing partner was adamant afterwards that the ball was obviously in a hazard to begin with and I should have simply played it as such. ..

Review the definition of "water hazard" in the Rules of Golf. A water hazard does not need to be marked as a water hazard to still be one.

[Fourputt]

26 minutes ago, TryingtoPlay said:

Per the rules of the game, I think that I probably played it correctly. My playing partner was adamant afterwards that the ball was obviously in a hazard to begin with and I should have simply played it as such. He then informed me that once I drop, the ball will be in play and I should play it from there as if I had not taken an unplayable and subsequently gone into the pond. Hence, this begs the second question. If I did misplay the situation, the strokes that I accumulated would obviously still count would they not?

You were in a water hazard.  You should have proceeded under that assumption.  Actually if your drop was not in accordance with the procedure under Rule 26-1, you played from a wrong place, and you incurred a 2 stroke penalty for that, in addition to the actual strokes taken plus the penalty stroke under Rule 26 for taking relief from the water hazard.

[TryingtoPlay]

I appreciate the response. How exactly are we sure that I was in a hazard again? I also have a further problem. What should the procedure be if the card was submitted for handicap purposes? I assume that the round should be invalidated?

[Martyn W]

1 hour ago, TryingtoPlay said:

Well, I played quite an eventful nine holes of golf today at a local municipal course. The fifth hole at the golf course is an uphill 380 yard dogleg right par 4 with trees right and a small pond to the front left of the green. Needless to say, I made quite a mess of the hole today and ended up just to the right of the pond (although down in the gully with no stance and part of the ball submerged). Amazingly, the pond is unmarked on the ground, but it does state in the yardage book that shots in the water "incur a one shot penalty." Being that there are no hazard markers I did not know what to do. I am literally 15 feet below the surrounding area with a wall in front of me and to my right. My stance is in the water. So, other than find a new golf course, I didn't know what the heck I was supposed to do. Anyways, I ultimately elected to take an unplayable. After picking up and dropping two club lengths backwards, the ball proceeds to role half way down the slope and literally in a hole that covered the entire bottom half of the golf ball. I still have virtually no stance, but I was able to hit at it which ultimately plopped down into the water anyways as the ground totally caught the clubhead and turned it over. At this point, all I could do was just laugh. I am totally unsure as to what I should have done.

Thank you

 

Your ball was in the hazard. If it fit the definition of a WH (which it did from your description) it is a WH marked or not. As the ball was in a WH you may not declare it unplayable. Dropping where you did sounds like it was in accordance with option b of 26-1, the ball went back into the WH and you should have re-dropped. The stroke you then made was from a wrong place (2ps). (No penalty for laughing)

[Fourputt]

4 minutes ago, TryingtoPlay said:

I appreciate the response. How exactly are we sure that I was in a hazard again? I also have a further problem. What should the procedure be if the card was submitted for handicap purposes? I assume that the round should be invalidated?

Rules of Golf, Definitions section.

Quote

Water Hazard

A "water hazard" is any sea, lake, pond, river, ditch, surface drainage ditch or other open water course (whether or not containing water) and anything of a similar nature on the course. All ground and water within the margin of a water hazard are part of the water hazard.

 

[Martyn W]

6 minutes ago, TryingtoPlay said:

I appreciate the response. How exactly are we sure that I was in a hazard again? I also have a further problem. What should the procedure be if the card was submitted for handicap purposes? I assume that the round should be invalidated?

For handicap purposes use ESC (7 if your handicap is 10-19; 8 if 20-29)

[TryingtoPlay]

The hazard had no margins though as it was unmarked.

[Martyn W]

1 minute ago, TryingtoPlay said:

The hazard had no margins though as it was unmarked.

The margin is the natural break in the terrain in the scenario you describe

 

[iacas]

2 minutes ago, TryingtoPlay said:

The hazard had no margins though as it was unmarked.

That means the natural margins of the water hazard, not the stakes or lines.

Addendum: Jinx!

[TryingtoPlay]

Just now, Martyn W said:

The margin is the natural break in the terrain in the scenario you describe

 

I see. Good to know. Thank you. The problem with the scorecard is that it was already submitted. Aren't cards invalidated once submitted if incorrect, aside from several specific instances.

[Fourputt]

8 minutes ago, TryingtoPlay said:

The hazard had no margins though as it was unmarked.

IN that case the natural bank of the hazard is the margin for purposes of the rules.

[TryingtoPlay]

4 minutes ago, Fourputt said:

IN that case the natural bank of the hazard is the margin for purposes of the rules.

Live and learn. I had never seen a pond that was unmarked before like this.

[Buckeyebowman]

3 hours ago, bkuehn1952 said:

Review the definition of "water hazard" in the Rules of Golf. A water hazard does not need to be marked as a water hazard to still be one.

True. Very few courses that I have played even have stakes defining the water hazards, let alone painted lines! You have to use common sense. You're either in the hazard or you're not. The courses I usually play don't have the budget or the manpower to support such an endeavor.

Contrast that with something like the WGC Bridgestone at Firestone CC in Akron. They had watercourses staked and lined so far off the course it was bizarre! Even out beyond the spectator entrance! I couldn't see how a competitor's ball could wind up out there, but it was on the property so they were taking no chances.

[TryingtoPlay]

12 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

True. Very few courses that I have played even have stakes defining the water hazards, let alone painted lines! You have to use common sense. You're either in the hazard or you're not. The courses I usually play don't have the budget or the manpower to support such an endeavor.

Contrast that with something like the WGC Bridgestone at Firestone CC in Akron. They had watercourses staked and lined so far off the course it was bizarre! Even out beyond the spectator entrance! I couldn't see how a competitor's ball could wind up out there, but it was on the property so they were taking no chances.

That really is crazy. This is the only course that I have ever seen in which a water hazard like a pond was unmarked.

[DaveP043]

15 hours ago, TryingtoPlay said:

I see. Good to know. Thank you. The problem with the scorecard is that it was already submitted. Aren't cards invalidated once submitted if incorrect, aside from several specific instances.

For a competition, submitting an incorrect scorecard can mean disqualification.  For handicap purposes, talk to your head pro, and he can change the score.  Its better to get it right than to eliminate the score from the records.  Just as an aside, a player who is disqualified from a competition is still (in most cases) required to post that score for handicap purposes.

[DrvFrShow]

I have come to the conclusion that some shots just aren't worth attempting. Sometimes Stroke and Distance is the easier way out. 

1) the duffed tee shot that ends up rolling down a steep slope into a lateral water hazard. You're hitting out on a steep slope - lucky if your ball stays on it. Your local knowledge of the course says "f*** it." You re-load +2 strokes and stripe one down the middle of the fairway and get a B or DB. Be thankful. It could have been a snowman.

2) the shot that ends up in the tall fescue... deep in the tall fescue, but you know you can find it because you know the course. Your local knowledge once again tells you to abandon the ball and take a S&D and drop a ball and just hit a shot because hacking your way out of that thick dry grass is a total nightmare. Stop and pick up your first shot on your way... that $4 ball is still usable.

Now a pro or low handicapper might actually try these shots, but for us higher handicappers these make blow up holes. Stroke and distance can actually be a lifesaver at times. It is something that can always be used.