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My Swing (Blackjack Don)


Blackjack Don
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1 hour ago, iacas said:

Note that it's in absence of a glaring weakness.

You've seen my swing. In lousy video. I'm way over-budget. I got a little carried away. Sad. But it's at the top of the list. It got pushed aside by a tri-pod. My video camera will have to do. I'll get LSW before I get a new camera. Priorities, man. Will there be a Kindle version? 

I'm in complete agreement with you on the 65/20/15 percentages. Esp if you base this on statistics. A good drive is worth more than a good putt, according to the data, so keeping the ball in play is what I'm working on. Until my left wrist becomes strong enough and stable enough to not collapse, it's going to take more like 75/25.

You do good work.

Wayne

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Well, another edition of my swing. Have at it.

Been working on the hip turn. Still working on left wrist straight, left arm straight. Most of these I come up short on the latter. Doing stretching exercises every morning to make a better pivot and shoulder turn. Next week I start a series of four with my local pro.

Thanks for any tips. All advice is welcome.

Wayne

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far be it from me to offer up any viable critique, but I can relate to the things I see that I also have problems with.  

1. a little bit of right arm chicken wing, and getting behind you in the back swing

2. raising up coming through impact

3. A bit of swaying

4. The still at the end of the video showing how you are up on your lead heel is telling. Looks to me as if you are falling back

Mine has gotten a lot better lately, I am keeping my elbow in better, and better turn. I still have to work on posture and maintaining a steady center. I think the advice you have received above is accurate. Good luck with your session with your pro.

"counting down a double deck is easier"

Edited by Hacker James

"James"

:titleist: 913 D3 with Aldila RIP Phenom 60 4,2 Regular Shaft,  :touredge: Exotics XCG-7 Beta 3W with Matrix Red Tie Shaft:touredge: Exotics EX8 19 deg Hybrid w UST Mamiya Recoil F3 Shaft:touredge: Exotics EX9 28 deg Hybrid w UST Mamiya Recoil F3  shaft, / Bobby Jones Black 22 deg Hybrid:touredge: Exotics EXi 6 -PW  w UST Mamiya Recoil F2 Shaft, SW (56),GW (52),LW (60):touredge:  TGS),/ ODDYSEE Metal-X #7 customized putter (400G, cut down Mid Belly)

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Here's my first practice video after my first lesson. We worked on a lot. I'm still not quite turning as well as I'd like, but overall I'm happy with the first results. 

 

Wayne

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We share a major commonality when it comes to the hip turn (or lack thereof). My advice would be to work on this and nothing else until it is better. I believe solving this will help many other things. 

- Shane

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On 1/8/2017 at 10:18 AM, Blackjack Don said:

Next week I start a series of four with my local pro.

I hope the lessons are spaced appropriately, and that you're not just doing 4 on pre-set topics and in relatively short order.

I also hope you've done a little research and chose a good instructor. They're rare.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

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looks better. You are getting weight forward a little more and not falling back as much. More turn should allow you to slide that right shoulder under the chin after impact. In practice, sometimes I will place a broken tee about 4 inches behind the ball and make sure I am looking at it after impact before following the shot by allowing my head to swivel through.

"James"

:titleist: 913 D3 with Aldila RIP Phenom 60 4,2 Regular Shaft,  :touredge: Exotics XCG-7 Beta 3W with Matrix Red Tie Shaft:touredge: Exotics EX8 19 deg Hybrid w UST Mamiya Recoil F3 Shaft:touredge: Exotics EX9 28 deg Hybrid w UST Mamiya Recoil F3  shaft, / Bobby Jones Black 22 deg Hybrid:touredge: Exotics EXi 6 -PW  w UST Mamiya Recoil F2 Shaft, SW (56),GW (52),LW (60):touredge:  TGS),/ ODDYSEE Metal-X #7 customized putter (400G, cut down Mid Belly)

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2 hours ago, iacas said:

I hope the lessons are spaced appropriately, and that you're not just doing 4 on pre-set topics and in relatively short order.

I also hope you've done a little research and chose a good instructor. They're rare.

Well, I'm trying to be an educated consumer. The student needs to trust the teacher, but the teacher needs to listen to the student. I have a lot of information in my head. I parse his teaching with what others have said. I told him I'm on board with Bobby Clampett's version of the 5 swing keys. (I see enough similarities to believe that both are saying pretty much the same thing.) So far, I'm satisfied that I can trust what he's saying. It feels like it's working. There's just so much to fix! Jeebus! Many things, one at a time.

I think so. Much of his stuff feels sort of old school, but he's been doing this for a long time, was on staff at a PGA Academy (I think that's what he said they were; they closed down and he became the head pro here.) He taught pros. What I did like from the lesson is it felt familiar, fundamentals--grip, alignment, setup and posture. I am working on the hip turn and we started working on lag. Next week we'll be working more on lag and the top of the backswing, the pivot and what he calls "the magic move" at the top.

If I've progressed as much as I've practiced, then I may be much improved before the third lesson in a couple of weeks. Again, informed consumer, tuned in. I've got video. I am hoping to get a coach for the next few years, not just four instant lessons.

Thanks for the advice. I'm always interested in your opinion.

 

Wayne

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6 minutes ago, Blackjack Don said:

Well, I'm trying to be an educated consumer. The student needs to trust the teacher, but the teacher needs to listen to the student. I have a lot of information in my head. I parse his teaching with what others have said. I told him I'm on board with Bobby Clampett's version of the 5 swing keys. (I see enough similarities to believe that both are saying pretty much the same thing.) So far, I'm satisfied that I can trust what he's saying. It feels like it's working. There's just so much to fix! Jeebus! Many things, one at a time.

FWIW, It's 5 Simple Keys®, and then a little over a year later, Bobby Clampett came out with a similarly named and almost identical thing at the next PGA Show.

6 minutes ago, Blackjack Don said:

I am working on the hip turn and we started working on lag. Next week we'll be working more on lag and the top of the backswing, the pivot and what he calls "the magic move" at the top.

I'm not you, and I'm not there, but… seems too fast to me.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

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38 minutes ago, iacas said:

FWIW, It's 5 Simple Keys®, and then a little over a year later, Bobby Clampett came out with a similarly named and almost identical thing at the next PGA Show.

No worries. Somewhere in the first draft of every golf book are the keys. The swing is dynamic, and the fundamentals of the basic golf swing are simply physics. If you look at posture as one of the basics, every good golfer probably is very close to the same. Or they are having to compensate somewhere else, which means he's making it more difficult on himself. It's right or it's a mistake. As many have said, if the clubface is square, the ball is going in the right direction, toward the flag. If not, it's a penalty, in distance or direction.

46 minutes ago, iacas said:

I'm not you, and I'm not there, but… seems too fast to me.

I'm an old athlete. Good genes. My mom was an all-state basketball player. My uncle was a scratch golfer and damn good football player. Lots of sports that required hand-eye coordination. That said, I get your point. I'm putting in a lot of practice time. If he has to correct a lot of stuff every lesson, then it won't be quite so fast.

:-D

Wayne

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13 minutes ago, Blackjack Don said:

No worries. Somewhere in the first draft of every golf book are the keys.

No. That's not true. We were the first to put the system together, and I'll insist that Dave and Chuck in particular deserve credit for that.

Peanut butter and jelly existed, but until someone put them together, we didn't have a PB&J sandwich. Before John Montagu, the 4th Earl of Sandwich put some meat between bread, we didn't even have sandwiches at all.

13 minutes ago, Blackjack Don said:

The swing is dynamic, and the fundamentals of the basic golf swing are simply physics.

Jim Furyk's impact position looks very little like Tiger's. Golf swings are not the same. The physics govern how the ball flies, but there's no one set of physics that's best or even achievable by all golfers.

13 minutes ago, Blackjack Don said:

If you look at posture as one of the basics, every good golfer probably is very close to the same.

The best golfers have very different types of setup. There's very little commonality there. Not even in the grip part: we've had palmy grips, grips in the fingers, strong grips, weak grips, even cross-handed grips succeed at the highest level of golf.

13 minutes ago, Blackjack Don said:

As many have said, if the clubface is square, the ball is going in the right direction, toward the flag. If not, it's a penalty, in distance or direction.

As I've said to you in the previous thread, very few golfers deliver a square clubface at impact. Virtually every golfer plays a curve. Which means the face is not square to the path or the target.

11 minutes ago, Blackjack Don said:

I'm an old athlete. Good genes. My mom was an all-state basketball player. My uncle was a scratch golfer and damn good football player. Lots of sports that required hand-eye coordination. That said, I get your point. I'm putting in a lot of practice time. If he has to correct a lot of stuff every lesson, then it won't be quite so fast.

I don't know that you do. I think you're going through things too quickly.

But I haven't seen you swing in person, I don't know what you're going to work on, etc. I just know what I've read here, and my background in teaching others. Even the most incredible of golfers struggle with changing things too quickly. Tiger Woods has changed his swing a few times, not even a ton, and it took him a year plus and he spent hours and hours daily working on it.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

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How many golfers get compared to Tiger Woods? Awesome, man! My goals are more modest. I'm just looking to play the game at a level which makes it more fun than losing balls in the woods. 

Seriously, I believe in getting the fundamentals right, even if we can't agree on what the fundamentals actually are, or how. Given all the elements of a golf swing, lots of moving parts and even many stationary, I'm trying to build on a more solid base than I had before. If it takes a lesson a month over the next year, I'm prepared to scrape the tips together to make it happen. I'm having a ball! (And I'm in much, much better shape than I was on the couch six months ago.)

I want to get better. I'm more patient than perhaps you know. I'm working at it, too. Even if I never shoot better than 80 for the rest of my life, it's the trip that counts, not the results. Fortunately, in golf we keep score so there's statistics to judge, not just what I think is good or not.

It's all good, man. I'm keeping a video record of my swing, starting from the start in June. I had no idea what I was looking at. Still don't. All I want to do is improve, and I think I'm doing that.

Best wishes, and congratulations on the honor of being recognized as one of the best.

Wayne

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12 hours ago, iacas said:

The physics govern how the ball flies, but there's no one set of physics that's best or even achievable by all golfers.

That's debatable. However, I wonder if we aren't having a problem communicating what each of us means? In poker, we caution ourselves to not be results oriented. One hand doesn't mean the numbers don't matter. For most poker players, the only thing that matters is the last hand. That's what they are basing their decisions on. Aren't golfers like this, too?

You have based your teaching system on data, numbers. So if they data says there is a reason to hit a divot with the deepest part four inches in front of the ball, then the best way to produce this is, let's say A. A deviation from that might be B. C. or Z. Yet there is a penalty for doing so. If not there, then down the line at another point in the dynamic swing. There simply must be a right way to swing, or your 5sk's would not be valid. 

Perhaps we can never come to an agreement. I agree with you about the 5sk's, but you insist that what causes them isn't as important. This causes me much confusion. Is it or isn't it? One mistake causes another. Fix something, and sooner or later everything will be fixed. Until it isn't, but that's another story.

I enjoy this discussion with you. It sharpens my understanding.

 

Wayne

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Everyone assimilates knowledge at a different pace. You should do what you feel is appropriate with your ability to absorb what your instructor is giving you and at the pace that YOU feel comfortable.  If you can take on more than one thing at a time and do not feel overwhelmed, by all means go for it.  Also there are also some instructors that want to stretch out your lessons, partially to make sure you "get it", and perhaps the feeling that their job is  never done and in a way, they are right as there is always something that needs work. Remember, that instructors are also learning - from you.

"James"

:titleist: 913 D3 with Aldila RIP Phenom 60 4,2 Regular Shaft,  :touredge: Exotics XCG-7 Beta 3W with Matrix Red Tie Shaft:touredge: Exotics EX8 19 deg Hybrid w UST Mamiya Recoil F3 Shaft:touredge: Exotics EX9 28 deg Hybrid w UST Mamiya Recoil F3  shaft, / Bobby Jones Black 22 deg Hybrid:touredge: Exotics EXi 6 -PW  w UST Mamiya Recoil F2 Shaft, SW (56),GW (52),LW (60):touredge:  TGS),/ ODDYSEE Metal-X #7 customized putter (400G, cut down Mid Belly)

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6 hours ago, Blackjack Don said:

That's debatable. However, I wonder if we aren't having a problem communicating what each of us means?

Perhaps.

But I think I'm being pretty clear: there are no one set of conditions that are best or even achievable by all good golfers.  You have major winners that hit down a ton (Trevino?) and who picked the ball (Tom Watson). You have major winners who faded the ball and major winners who couldn't hit a fade to save their lives (not literally; hyperbole to make the point). You have major winners with far more shaft lean than others.

6 hours ago, Blackjack Don said:

You have based your teaching system on data, numbers. So if they data says there is a reason to hit a divot with the deepest part four inches in front of the ball, then the best way to produce this is, let's say A.

There is no credible data to support that conclusion. Tom Watson's low point may have been one inch past the ball. We know that for the driver that advice can be contrary - often it's best to have the low point on the opposite side of the golf ball. The low point for some of the PGA Tour players hitting a 3-wood is also on on the "wrong" side of the ball - they have a slight upward AoA.

Yes, I've based my teaching on numbers, but "four inches" is not a commonality of the game's best players, and my numbers often have fairly large ranges of what's acceptable.

6 hours ago, Blackjack Don said:

A deviation from that might be B. C. or Z. Yet there is a penalty for doing so. If not there, then down the line at another point in the dynamic swing. There simply must be a right way to swing, or your 5sk's would not be valid.

There is no one right way to swing, and that doesn't invalidate 5 Simple Keys® at all. We listed only five commonalities. We didn't even call them absolutes, and even within them, like "Steady Head," we have a range of values that is acceptable.

6 hours ago, Blackjack Don said:

Perhaps we can never come to an agreement. I agree with you about the 5sk's, but you insist that what causes them isn't as important. This causes me much confusion. Is it or isn't it? One mistake causes another.

I don't know what this says. I've never said "what causes them isn't as important." I don't know what mistakes have to do with this, either.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

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Note: This thread is 2397 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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