Flopping Chips & Pitches

[Patch]

I have been a proponent of a slightly open club face on my full swings, at address. Have been since I took up this game back in the 70s. 

I was cruising the internet a few weeks ago and found a little tid bit about "flopping" chips & pitches. This caught my thinking process because I love to hit full swing flop shots when ever I can.  It's one of my go to shots. Where ever I read this, author's point was it was an easy way to controll the roll distance on chips, and pitches.

I thought I would give it a try. So for the past couple of weeks, I have been spending time working on this new to me idea.

The set up is the same as my own full swing flop shot. An open  club face,  square to the target, with an open stance. The stroke still follows my shoulder line.  The only difference is the length of my back swing, which is limited by the distance to the cup. This back swing length, while using the same club, seems to be the toughest part to adjust to. 

My own jury is still out on this shot, but it is showing some promis. The idea of the ball going a higher, and dropping closer to the cup, with very little roll has my interest. Today was a good day. Once I got serious, I hit 14 flopped-chips, from off the fringe to a cup 10 feet away. Three went in. 10 were one putts. I actually missed a 2 foot putt on the 14th ball. I didn't take my time. 

Just a thought, I would pass along. 

[Hatchman]

Sounds like a great practice day with good results.  Keep it up and moving to different lies and textures.  Check out dynamic loft relationship also. 

[Hategolf]

13 minutes ago, Patch said:

I hit 14 flopped-chips, from off the fringe to a cup 10 feet away. Three went in. 10 were one putts. I actually missed a 2 foot putt on the 14th ball. I didn't take my time. 

Just a thought, I would pass along. 

Very cool...

Why would you not consider keeping the ball down more from 10' away?  to each its own, but I'm just curious. I mean flop shots are really fun, but boy If you have a funky lie or if you get a little scoopy you can end up hitting the wedge thin and sayonara!

I used to carry a 60 degree. I figured it would be my go to wedge around the green, I also love short and high shots..but let me tell you, I skulled that wedge too many times in rounds that could have been my best scores and always at the wrong time, like in the 17 hole. The joy of those high soft landing shots was replaced quickly by the sour higher scores. Then I started to de-loft the 60 and it was really hard to hold the angle, just not worth the effort. I let the 60 go and now I carry a 58 but  that wedge is not my go to  either. Now, I try bumping a gap or a pitching wedge..it takes a little to gauge the distance but it seems to be a much more forgiving shot. 

I prefer a short or long poor bump and run than an off the green in the bunker skulled wedge.

[phillyk]

I've commented before on how I like to teach golfers about using the bounce of the wedge when they chip.  So long as you are swinging an straight-in or in-in stroke, the hozel will stay out of it.  And the bounce will protect you from hitting the ball too fat if you hit behind it.

5 minutes ago, Hategolf said:

I used to carry a 60 degree. I figured it would be my go to wedge around the green, I also love short and high shots..but let me tell you, I skulled that wedge too many times in rounds that could have been my best scores and always at the wrong time, like in the 17 hole.

I've never had a problem with skulling chips so long as the bounce isn't ginormous and you're still descending into the ball.  I guess if you are playing on super hard fairways, it might be better to use a different stroke.

But, once you start playing around with this, you can still use this stroke and hit lower chips that run out.  

[Patch]

I won't give up on my regular chips & pitches. This new, for me, idea is just intriguing. Who knows,  this time next month, it might be done, and forgotten. Then again, ...........?

[David in FL]

You hit a flop shot from 10 feet, from the fringe, and I'll putt the same shot.  100 times.  Guess who does better.  A lot better.

Just because a shot is fun, doesn't make it practical, or the best option.

[Patch]

2 hours ago, David in FL said:

You hit a flop shot from 10 feet, from the fringe, and I'll putt the same shot.  100 times.  Guess who does better.  A lot better.

Just because a shot is fun, doesn't make it practical, or the best option.

From 10 feet from the fringe,  in a real match, I would probably putt the ball too. It's obviously a much safer shot.

What I did today was just schooling myself in something that could be of use at a later date. 

[boogielicious]

11 hours ago, David in FL said:

You hit a flop shot from 10 feet, from the fringe, and I'll putt the same shot.  100 times.  Guess who does better.  A lot better.

Just because a shot is fun, doesn't make it practical, or the best option.

Agree. There is a larger margin for error with respect to contact with putting.

[David in FL]

13 hours ago, Patch said:

I won't give up on my regular chips & pitches. This new, for me, idea is just intriguing. Who knows,  this time next month, it might be done, and forgotten. Then again, ...........?

No argument that there couldn't be a time and place for such a shot.  Maybe a sprinkler head or some bad ground in front of you that would affect either a putt, or a normal chip.  Nothing at all wrong with trying different shots against the day when you might need it.

[dchoye]

The short game is an art, there are unlimited types of pitches and chips.

I like using a "lob" and a "lob chip" for elevated greens , If the green is at the same level as  my feet or at knee level I rather use the bump and run or putt .

[mdl]

As an aside, @Patch, are you saying you play all your full swing shots as a high big cut?

[Patch]

1 hour ago, mdl said:

As an aside, @Patch, are you saying you play all your full swing shots as a high big cut?

No, not really a cut. (I am old school, so call it a  fade)  I just have the club face open a little at address, and let my grip,  as it changes at impact square the club face up. I found out a long time ago that the grip position I have at address, is not the same grip position I have at impact. It's close to the same, but not exact. Alot happens in my up and down swing.

My normal ball flight on full swings is pretty straight most of the way, that will tail off some of the time to left. Other times, the ball might tail off right near the the end of the ball flight. 

If I want to hit a fade (cut) I have to change my grip to more open (weaker) at address. This allows the club face to be some what more open at impact which causes a more right to left ball flight. Probably not a real scientific answer, but how I understand how to do it. I wouldn't presume to say it works for everyone. 

[RH31]

I use my 56* wedge almost exclusively around the greens. I also try to pitch the ball to a spot on the greens instead of trying to get it on the ground and rolling most of the time. I know this is counter to what most players or pros advocate. I've found that it's much easier for me to judge how far to carry the ball than it is for me to judge how much a ball is going to roll out on a chip. If I'm in the fringe or fairway near a green I'm good at putting the ball close, but not good at judging the speed of the chip. I putt it or pitch it, almost never chip it.

For me, it's best to play the shots I have in my bag, not the shot you're "supposed" to play.

[mdl]

17 minutes ago, RH31 said:

I use my 56* wedge almost exclusively around the greens. I also try to pitch the ball to a spot on the greens instead of trying to get it on the ground and rolling most of the time. I know this is counter to what most players or pros advocate. I've found that it's much easier for me to judge how far to carry the ball than it is for me to judge how much a ball is going to roll out on a chip. If I'm in the fringe or fairway near a green I'm good at putting the ball close, but not good at judging the speed of the chip. I putt it or pitch it, almost never chip it.

For me, it's best to play the shots I have in my bag, not the shot you're "supposed" to play.

This is me exactly, except I use my 60˚.  Although I'd argue that a large portion of pros mostly pitch around the greens as well.  Of course, even then it often looks like they're playing a chip and run if you're not paying super close attention because their greens are so fast that anything but a Phil 64˚ super high pitch is going to run out a decent amount regardless.

My failing is that I've ingrained this thinking a bit too much and am over confident in my pitching on all but my hottest days with the 60˚.  I'll definitely putt off the fringe, but I've over-learned from the frankly probably rarer cases when I've tried putting from a not 100% perfect spot for an off the green putt and had a bad result because of misjudging the ground response, and I'll often pitch even when just a couple of feet off the fringe on close or pretty close cut grass.

15 hours ago, Patch said:

No, not really a cut. (I am old school, so call it a  fade)  I just have the club face open a little at address, and let my grip,  as it changes at impact square the club face up. I found out a long time ago that the grip position I have at address, is not the same grip position I have at impact. It's close to the same, but not exact. Alot happens in my up and down swing.

My normal ball flight on full swings is pretty straight most of the way, that will tail off some of the time to left. Other times, the ball might tail off right near the the end of the ball flight. 

If I want to hit a fade (cut) I have to change my grip to more open (weaker) at address. This allows the club face to be some what more open at impact which causes a more right to left ball flight. Probably not a real scientific answer, but how I understand how to do it. I wouldn't presume to say it works for everyone. 

This totally makes sense, and I know some guys who set up with an open face but close or mostly close the face to the target line at impact.  It's just in your description of the new pitch setup you said you go open stance, face open to stance but square to target line, and then swing down the stance line.  That made it sound to me like, if you do in the swing what you're trying to, you'd have to hit a big high straight-fade.

But you actually more often have a baby draw?  That's interesting.  I've played around with an open stance here and there because at times I've found it easier to hit a baby push-draw that ends up right of my "target" line than one that ends up on it.