Wedges: Groove Wear & Spin Performance

[Hardspoon]

Related to the ubiquitous "how often should you replace your wedges" question:

 

 

[David in FL]

Wow.  That's scary.  

[Jack Watson]

Clearly fresh grooves make a difference.  I've read many comments to the contrary.  I agree with the results.

[Hardspoon]

17 minutes ago, David in FL said:

Wow.  That's scary.  

Especially since my 60-degree wedge has 100+ rounds on it.

Admittedly, this video is coming from a company that sells wedges.

[David in FL]

Just now, Hardspoon said:

Especially since my 60-degree wedge has 100+ rounds on it.

Admittedly, this video is coming from a company that sells wedges.

I play 100+ rounds a year...  

I'm not sure that "rounds" is a very good/accurate metric for measuring wear though.  I can go several rounds without hitting one, or even two of my 4 wedges. Still, it does tend to indicate that many of us should be replacing our wedges more often than we do.

[saevel25]

Andrew Rice did a test that showed that grooves and milled faces have very small impact on spin. For him, it was about 400 rpm on 6000-6500 rpm wedge shots. 

http://www.andrewricegolf.com/andrew-rice-golf/2014/5/to-go-milled-or-not-milled

2 minutes ago, David in FL said:

I play 100+ rounds a year...  

I'm not sure that "rounds" is a very good/accurate metric for measuring wear though.  I can go several rounds without hitting one, or even two of my 4 wedges. Still, it does tend to indicate that many of us should be replacing our wedges more often than we do.

I agree. How often does Spieth practice with his wedges? 

[chilepepper]

Has anyone tried any of the groove sharpeners and found an improvement?

[kegan116]

2 hours ago, saevel25 said:

I agree. How often does Spieth practice with his wedges? 

I would assume he would hit a fair amount of wedges everyday. But i'm sure he has his wedges replicated so he wouldn't have to use the one he plays with in tournaments.

2 hours ago, chilepepper said:

Has anyone tried any of the groove sharpeners and found an improvement?

I got one it doesn't really do much. Plus if you do too much the wedge wouldn't be usga conforming anymore.

Edited March 30, 2017 by kegan116

[kpaulhus]

Pros can get new wedges every other week if they want them. I saw a post about an LPGA player that was on her second set of wedges this year because of how much she practiced with them. I usually go 12-16 months before I get new wedges. Then again, I play 140+ rounds a year and hit balls at least twice a week. 

[1badbadger]

I agree that grooves make a difference, and they should be kept clean, but I have a few problems with the Titleist video:

• To replicate a 75-round wedge, they hit it 500 times.  For the 125-round wedge, it was hit 1000 times.
• If Jordan Spieth needs to replace his lob wedge every few tournaments, there is a problem with Vokey's durability.  I don't care if he's a pro and practices a lot...grooves should hold up for more than a few weeks.
• This is one of the reasons companies like Cleveland, Vokey, and others usually cast wedges out of 8620...it's more durable than forging out of 1020 or 1025.  The grooves last longer and the loft and lie tend to hold better.
• Most wedge shots are not hit with full swings.  The majority are chip shots and pitch shots, which doesn't wear down the grooves as fast.

To me, this just smacks of trying to sell more wedges by trying to convince players to replace them more often than is needed.  Because the life cycle of Vokey wedges is longer than a TaylorMade driver for example, this is their way of trying to move product.  Vokey will not re-groove wedges either, because they want you to buy new ones.  I am a big believer in fresh grooves, but there is no reason wedges should have to be replaced that frequently.  

[kpaulhus]

31 minutes ago, 1badbadger said:

I agree that grooves make a difference, and they should be kept clean, but I have a few problems with the Titleist video:

• To replicate a 75-round wedge, they hit it 500 times.  For the 125-round wedge, it was hit 1000 times.
• If Jordan Spieth needs to replace his lob wedge every few tournaments, there is a problem with Vokey's durability.  I don't care if he's a pro and practices a lot...grooves should hold up for more than a few weeks.

2 things on this:

• I suspect that amateur players use more than 8 full wedge swings per round, plus chips and pitches, so 1000 times for 125 rounds seems to be on the conservative side. I would say players use wedges more than that and that further proves the point of wear on wedges. 
• Speith replaces his 60* wedge more than likely due to preference, not so much wear. The average Joe could probably use Jordan's "used" 60* wedge for another year without an issue. 

[WUTiger]

2 hours ago, 1badbadger said:

If Jordan Spieth needs to replace his lob wedge every few tournaments, there is a problem with Vokey's durability.  I don't care if he's a pro and practices a lot...grooves should hold up for more than a few weeks.

Or, it could be that Spieth just does it for "peace of mind." He doesn't want to be worrying about grooves - valid concern or not - when he's trying for an up-and-down to force a playoff.

Also, along with the bounce-assessment and clean grooves clips on YouTube, you find other clips on how to use regrooving tools to refurb your groove depth. @1badbadger, how effective are these groove sharpeners? (This assumes Joe Average knows how to use it properly.)

(I assume that if regrooving works, twice would be about the limit before you need new wedges.)

The same with spining and puring shafts, and "peace of mind." Pros can get it for free, but I've heard mixed reviews on the value of S+P for the average golfer - in part because of improved quality control for shafts the last decade.

[cooke119]

Great, something else to worry about? I'm not spending the money on new wedges every couple of years that's for sure. I agree, it is a company pushing product. The ball you use probably has more to do with it and they're a lot cheaper.

[kpaulhus]

34 minutes ago, cooke119 said:

Great, something else to worry about? I'm not spending the money on new wedges every couple of years that's for sure. I agree, it is a company pushing product. The ball you use probably has more to do with it and they're a lot cheaper.

Not really. I think it is a company informing consumers that wedges do wear out sooner than you think and can have and impact on your ability to stop a ball on a green. All golf balls spin. A good wedge will ensure that. 

[1badbadger]

4 hours ago, WUTiger said:

Or, it could be that Spieth just does it for "peace of mind." He doesn't want to be worrying about grooves - valid concern or not - when he's trying for an up-and-down to force a playoff.

Also, along with the bounce-assessment and clean grooves clips on YouTube, you find other clips on how to use regrooving tools to refurb your groove depth. @1badbadger, how effective are these groove sharpeners? (This assumes Joe Average knows how to use it properly.)

(I assume that if regrooving works, twice would be about the limit before you need new wedges.)

The same with spining and puring shafts, and "peace of mind." Pros can get it for free, but I've heard mixed reviews on the value of S+P for the average golfer - in part because of improved quality control for shafts the last decade.

You might be right about him wanting "piece of mind", but even if he gets the same wedge, I'm sure there is some hand grinding done to the heads, so there are slight differences with turf or sand interaction.  Maybe it's not a big deal to him.

I've used several types of groove sharpeners in the past.  Any of the tools available are sharpeners...not re-groovers (despite what the package might say).  They are ok.  They will put a fresh edge on the grooves, and it's enough to be able to tell a little difference, but it won't bring back worn out grooves or give a wedge mack-daddy grooves or anything like that.

Puring or spine aligning is one of those things that some guys are totally convinced makes a difference and some guys are convinced it's a bunch of smoke-and-mirrors.  There are others who figure for $20 or $25...it can't hurt.  Then, there are debates about where to orient the spine when the shaft is installed.  Some say it should face the target, others say it should be opposite of the target, and I've heard some guys say it should be at 12:00 or 6:00.  

[shortstop20]

None of my wedges roll out anywhere near as far as they're suggesting that they should. My 54 has well over 100 rounds on it and it doesn't roll out nearly that far. Heck, it might have 200 rounds on it. 

That being said, I am planning on replacing my wedges this year.

[Hacker James]

I have not read this thread in its entirety, but just noticed the bit about web groove tools. I have one that I used on a six iron, and it literally "eats" up the coating on golf balls. I probably did not use it correctly, or maybe I just got to heavy handed, but the balls have dozens of urethane "spikes" on them. In time, it should dull up I am guessing.

[chilepepper]

6 minutes ago, shortstop20 said:

None of my wedges roll out anywhere near as far as they're suggesting that they should. My 54 has well over 100 rounds on it and it doesn't roll out nearly that far. Heck, it might have 200 rounds on it. 

That being said, I am planning on replacing my wedges this year.

I concur with the roll out. I just trading in a set of Adams wedges. Ok not vokeys. I had almost 4 years of 2-3x a week golf + 2 x a week practice and still they stopped on the green, little if any roll out.