Balls falling out of air -4,5 Driver.

[freshmanUTA]

Hey guys, this is more of a question for my dad as he's very stressed about this issue and I don't know what could be causing it. 

When my dad hits his 4 iron, 5 iron and Driver, the balls leave the club face with really low ball speed and the balls seem to just fall out of the air and don't really travel past 150 yards for irons, and 215-220 for his driver. I believe the driver is a combination of hitting down and not finding the center, however with his irons he is finding the center, as we've proven with impact tape, and he is hitting the ball before the ground. The balls don't ever seem to penetrate the air like a solidly stick ball should, even when he gives it everything he has and finds the center. It's almost as if they're just knuckle balls as sometimes they will slice but then randomly move in the air. Similar to ballooning but the ball doesn't ever seem to reach it's true max height before just falling out of the sky. It is an extremely strange problem and I'm not sure what to tell him.

 

 

I have to apologize, these swings are almost a month old, and I couldn't get a good video since the sun was shining right into my phone camera. I've been helping him with some drills to stop coming over the top and his ball flight has become essentially a slight pull fade with his irons and a pull fade with driver. Still over the top, but 1 month won't fix 40 years of swing flaws. I've showed him the thread about hitting 3 wood farther than driver because this is a common issue for him. 

Obviously this issue is causing him frustration but he doesn't want to take lessons because the only few times he has it's been a very negative experience with guys who are just honestly not qualified to be teachers. I'd just like to know if anyone sees or knows something that I can try with him for this issue. His contact makes a clean sound and he doesn't have a slow swing speed(105 consistently with driver, 88 consistently with 6 iron), he's still decently athletic for his age so I don't believe this is the problem, I'm just not an instructor so I don't have the answer as to what could be happening.

Edited May 10, 2017 by freshmanUTA

[JGus]

Well I am not an instructor either, so take this with a grain of salt, and I'm sure others with more knowledge will provide better answers, but this is what I see.

1.  The ball height never gets above his head, with the driver or the iron, I don't know if that's his normal ball flight or if it's a result of being inside, but if it is the normal ball flight that could cause a loss in distance.

2.  With the iron, it looks like the club head is beating his hands to the ball, meaning there is no forward lean to the shaft at impact, you would probably need a face on view to better see this. If this is the case, he will lose some speed. But as I type this, i'm thinking that would actually add loft, so maybe there is a deeper issue that I am not qualified to see.

Edited May 10, 2017 by JGus

[Dannyhansen88]

Yeah a head on view would be extremely helpful. But the club head being in front of the hands doesn't always mean a high ball flight.  He definitely should try to incorporate shaft lean, this will help compression and the ball will come off the face harder. Investing in a tour striker http://www.tourstriker.com/shop/tourstriker_7new.aspx would be a great training aid, it changed my game a few years back. Also, I am no swing instructor so I may be completely wrong

[freshmanUTA]

4 hours ago, JGus said:

Well I am not an instructor either, so take this with a grain of salt, and I'm sure others with more knowledge will provide better answers, but this is what I see.

1.  The ball height never gets above his head, with the driver or the iron, I don't know if that's his normal ball flight or if it's a result of being inside, but if it is the normal ball flight that could cause a loss in distance.

2.  With the iron, it looks like the club head is beating his hands to the ball, meaning there is no forward lean to the shaft at impact, you would probably need a face on view to better see this. If this is the case, he will lose some speed. But as I type this, i'm thinking that would actually add loft, so maybe there is a deeper issue that I am not qualified to see.

Yeah, I think its more of a being inside thing because the last few times we've played he definitely hasn't hit this low.

 

I'll try to get a better view of his swing for you guys, I was just trying to see if anyone had ever experienced this.

[Slowcelica]

He should probably start a my swing thread, there are things that he needs to fix in his swing. I'm not an expert but I would start with the takeaway, he has a very low inside take away, so he routes the club inside to out on the downswing.

The other thing is what driver is he hitting, was he fit for it? I had a driver I tried that was a low spin driver and I didn't have the ss for it. The balls would go about 75 yards out and drop straight down, like a snap hook or slice but toward the ground. 

[freshmanUTA]

10 hours ago, Slowcelica said:

He should probably start a my swing thread, there are things that he needs to fix in his swing. I'm not an expert but I would start with the takeaway, he has a very low inside take away, so he routes the club inside to out on the downswing.

The other thing is what driver is he hitting, was he fit for it? I had a driver I tried that was a low spin driver and I didn't have the ss for it. The balls would go about 75 yards out and drop straight down, like a snap hook or slice but toward the ground. 

In a way yes, he was fit. He went to golfsmith and tried a few shafts and heads, and the driver he uses now was the one that worked the best. 

 

For anyone interested, 

 

This is face on.

 

I'll try to get him to create an account and a my swing thread.

[Aflighter]

Just from watching that 6 iron shot, his wrist are breaking wayyy too early before hitting the ball. The clubface is in front of his hands.No compression at all and he seems to have lunged forward thru shot.

[Buckeyebowman]

I saw a scoop, flip, whatever you want to call it. And I also saw your Dad looking way up in the air. There's no compression in that swing. Also, check the position of his left foot. Why is it toed in toward the ball? How can he get through the ball that way?

[Jack Watson]

It's not a flip.  It's a wide stance quick hit from the right.   Maybe study Doug Sanders a bit.  He's gotta learn to make more of a swing through imo.  Check out Doug Sanders he kinda did something similar with setup short bs.  

 

Sanders swings through it vs hitting at it.

Edited May 12, 2017 by Jack Watson

[Slowcelica]

13 hours ago, freshmanUTA said:

In a way yes, he was fit. He went to golfsmith and tried a few shafts and heads, and the driver he uses now was the one that worked the best. 

 

For anyone interested, 

 

This is face on.

 

I'll try to get him to create an account and a my swing thread.

From this, he looks like his weight never gets to his lead side in the downswing, if anything it is moving backwards. At 9 seconds, he picks up his lead foot and turns it, if his weight was forward he wouldn't be able to do that. I'd find a good instructor and get a lesson or sign up for evolvr.

Edited May 12, 2017 by Slowcelica

[Buckeyebowman]

Good catch, Slowcelica. I messed around with the "Settings" and found I could slow the vid to 1/4 speed. It became obvious that the man's weight is almost entirely on his right foot at impact, allowing him to lift his left foot entirely off the ground and spin it toward the target!

I guess this is what led me to notice his "pigeon toed" stance with his left foot in the first place. Also, if he managed to get his weight to his left side, he would probably fall into the ball as well.

[freshmanUTA]

6 minutes ago, Buckeyebowman said:

Good catch, Slowcelica. I messed around with the "Settings" and found I could slow the vid to 1/4 speed. It became obvious that the man's weight is almost entirely on his right foot at impact, allowing him to lift his left foot entirely off the ground and spin it toward the target!

I guess this is what led me to notice his "pigeon toed" stance with his left foot in the first place. Also, if he managed to get his weight to his left side, he would probably fall into the ball as well.

 

11 hours ago, Slowcelica said:

From this, he looks like his weight never gets to his lead side in the downswing, if anything it is moving backwards. At 9 seconds, he picks up his lead foot and turns it, if his weight was forward he wouldn't be able to do that. I'd find a good instructor and get a lesson or sign up for evolvr.

 

21 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

I saw a scoop, flip, whatever you want to call it. And I also saw your Dad looking way up in the air. There's no compression in that swing. Also, check the position of his left foot. Why is it toed in toward the ball? How can he get through the ball that way?

Thanks so much guys, I worked with him on flaring his feet outward, and gave him a drill where a tee is under his left heel and he has to squash it on the downswing. Helped tremendously right away. So much so that he was finally able to get real distance out of his shots. Of course, as with any new swing change, he was shanking quite a bit, but he is sticking with it and I will post an update in a few weeks after he really works on it. May even convince the stubborn old guy to sign up for an account and post a my swing thread!

[Buckeyebowman]

Good for him, and good for you! I've been noticing the new Callaway radio ads that say, "If you're not willing to make changes in your game, how can you expect to get better?" Talk about truth in advertising!

Congrats to your Dad for taking the first step.

[iacas]

On 5/12/2017 at 0:55 AM, Jack Watson said:

It's not a flip.  It's a wide stance quick hit from the right.

No… it's a flip…