People suck (drivers v. cyclists)

[nevets88]

I've been cycling around NYC since I was a kid, from my first Schwinn, to my first 10 speed (I lost count of how many speeds my current road bike has, 21?), around the city, the suburbs, Manhattan to NJ, riding the most dangerous avenues in the city, 2nd, Broadway, Times Square, across bridges, GW, BB, Williamsburg, Randall's Island, etc... The worst things that have happened to me are minor falls, flesh wounds, not even a broken collarbone, which is the most common, but I don't race and the races I've done are in Central Park with zero cars. Is it scary, yes. Do you adjust, yes. I have no regrets, I have seen more of the city and area than most people have because the mileage you cover on a bike is amazing and I'm probably 10-15 pounds lighter than I otherwise would be, healthier. It's the press that is making it out to be far worse than it is. Do bad things happen? Yes, but bad things happen everywhere to anyone. 

[JetFan1983]

Damn, I wanted to hate the cyclist for hogging the road, but the stupid driver had to lose his mind and try to kill the guy. Not to make excuses for attempted manslaughter but the guy must've been having a really bad day. 

Here's a funny Calvin and Hobbes comic I think golfers can relate to on some level hehe:

[No Mulligans]

FYI

California law, excepts:

Quote

The California Vehicle Code contains the state laws that specify where and how bikes must operate. For the most part, bicyclists have the same rights and responsibilities as motor vehicle drivers.

If you're moving as fast as traffic, you can ride wherever you want.

If you're moving slower than traffic, you can still "take the lane." The law says that people who ride bikes must ride as close to the right side of the road as practicable except under the following conditions: when passing, preparing for a left turn, avoiding hazards, if the lane is too narrow to share, or if approaching a place where a right turn is authorized.

Use the bicycle lane. On a roadway with a bike lane, bicyclists traveling slower than traffic must use the bike lane except when making a left turn, passing, avoiding hazardous conditions, or approaching a place where a right turn is authorized.

I have been a road cyclist.  My per peeve is cyclist that don't use the bike lane.  This is extremely common in San Diego.  Take the coast highway on any Saturday or Sunday and you'll often see cyclists riding side by side and spilling out into a lane where the traffic flows at 50 mph plus.  

There are also places where you can watch 100 cyclists in a row run the stop signs or the red light (myself included it actually could be dangerous to stop if other cyclists are on your tail).There are many places where it is completely safe to do so as the roads tee into the coast highway and the bike lane on the other side is out of the way of traffic.  Still the law says you must stop.  And I'm not talking about a slow speed rolling stop which is also against the law, these are full speed blow through the stop signs.  Anyone that says most cyclists follow the laws is full of it.  Almost all cyclists violate laws.

Edited June 20, 2017 by No Mulligans

[roamin]

5 hours ago, No Mulligans said:

FYI

California law, excepts:

I have been a road cyclist.  My per peeve is cyclist that don't use the bike lane.  This is extremely common in San Diego.  Take the coast highway on any Saturday or Sunday and you'll often see cyclists riding side by side and spilling out into a lane where the traffic flows at 50 mph plus.  

There are also places where you can watch 100 cyclists in a row run the stop signs or the red light (myself included it actually could be dangerous to stop if other cyclists are on your tail).There are many places where it is completely safe to do so as the roads tee into the coast highway and the bike lane on the other side is out of the way of traffic.  Still the law says you must stop.  And I'm not talking about a slow speed rolling stop which is also against the law, these are full speed blow through the stop signs.  Anyone that says most cyclists follow the laws is full of it.  Almost all cyclists violate laws.

Man, I wish I could give rep in here. 

 

 

Edited June 20, 2017 by roamin
meh

[boogielicious]

21 hours ago, iacas said:

Odd that you responded to my comment with that. I said nothing about cyclists who OBEY the law. I talked about cyclists doing stupid things, like going slowly on a fast road with blind spots from hills and curves, and signaling AS they turn (not before) and just cutting across traffic.

Cyclists endanger themselves (and often in doing so endanger motorists, too). That was my only point.

And like I said above, who knows how long this cyclist had been pissing off the driver. Still no excuse, or even close, but I can certainly imagine getting frustrated (again, not EVER doing what the van driver did) if I was behind a cyclist going 15 in a 45 zone for four or five miles.

It was more of a general comment, not necessarily directed at you. Bad cyclists create tension with drivers and give a bad rep to good, law abiding cyclist. It stinks. Good cyclist are in danger because of these guys. Bike messengers in Boston are a prime example. Drivers just assume that cyclist are just like the bad ones and lose patience.

Years ago I was yelled at by a younger guy in a pickup truck to "get on the sidewalk!". I pulled up to him at the light as said that I can't ride on the sidewalk, because it is against the law. I am supposed to ride on the road. That caught him off guard. He said, "really?". I said, "Yeah, really." (BTW, this is for MA. I don't know about other states) Kids do it, but police aren't going to ticket children.

I don't ride during rush hour anymore on the roads. It's just not safe. Sad really. 

[nevets88]

Bike messengers are bad everywhere, some of them are adrenaline junkies. 

Also, the US has been unduly influenced by the auto industry/lobby in so many ways, the anti-bicycle sentiment is just one of them. Cycling is very looked down upon here, compared to most other countries. It's in the American DNA unfortunately, bicycling is beneficial in so many ways, but car culture rules.

[David in FL]

2 minutes ago, nevets88 said:

Cycling is very looked down upon here, compared to most other countries....

True.  Heck, you don't need to look too much further than this thread....

[jkelley9]

23 hours ago, Shindig said:

This is terrifying.  I'm trying to get back into bicycling, primarily as exercise (I don't intend to bike to work, for example).  Nothing on the highway and I'll steer well clear of main roads for quite some time.  Somehow this is still terrifying.

Because it is; terrifying. 

I think people that cycle on public roads have at least a fleck of insanity. (Speaking as a US citizen) Do you really trust our fellow Americans THAT much? All it takes is one goofball, one clown, one psycho, one driver that's driving without their glasses, one teenager fiddling with their radio/phone, or one mentality unstable person, and the list goes on and on - to end your life or seriously harm you.

Question to those that cycle on public roads in the States, if you're on any forums or are knowledgeable in the statistics: what percentage of US drivers when striking a cyclist actually stop and help the person, and do the right thing? 

[phan52]

That van driver was out of line. That said, everybody who uses the roads need to obey traffic laws and I see bike riders flaunt them every day, endangering both themselves and drivers. Personally, I only ride a bike on trails. Not worth the risk to be on a well traveled road.

Edited June 21, 2017 by phan52

[nevets88]

Driving is even more dangerous but we don't even think about it, we talked about car accidents in another thread, and one line of thought was how it was amazing there aren't even more accidents. More than 10 times likely to die in a car than on a bicycle. People know the risks of smoking, being overweight, etc... yet they smoke, don't adjust diet, etc... The car culture is so ingrained in our minds, we don't think about it,

[Kalnoky]

Absent from that list is drug overdose. Drug overdose is the leading cause of accidental death in the US, with 52,400 lethal drug overdoses in 2015, and I believe that number increased in 2016, but I'm too lazy to google the exact figure.

So I guess you could say we have an ingrained drug culture too. 

People love their dope. 

Edited June 21, 2017 by Kalnoky

[No Mulligans]

4 hours ago, nevets88 said:

Driving is even more dangerous but we don't even think about it, we talked about car accidents in another thread, and one line of thought was how it was amazing there aren't even more accidents. More than 10 times likely to die in a car than on a bicycle. People know the risks of smoking, being overweight, etc... yet they smoke, don't adjust diet, etc... The car culture is so ingrained in our minds, we don't think about it,

How to lie with statistics.  By that logic base jumping is safer than any of those activities.

Edited June 21, 2017 by No Mulligans

[jkelley9]

16 hours ago, No Mulligans said:

How to lie with statistics.  By that logic base jumping is safer than any of those activities.

Agreed. That data needs to be normalized, heavily.

A start would be average hours spent in an automobile per person versus hours spent on a bike on a public road.

[nevets88]

Kind of similar to the beginning sequence of events in OP:

 

[Yukari]

That motorcycle guys should be locked up.  Poor innocent person in a white pickup got caught up in two douche bags road rage.

[SLAMGolf]

On 6/17/2017 at 9:13 PM, billchao said:

In what world is that kind of behavior OK?

My guess is, Europe.

[nevets88]

Cycling may be dangerous, but people are doing it:

 

[Pretzel]

On 6/22/2017 at 6:26 PM, nevets88 said:

Kind of similar to the beginning sequence of events in OP:

 

I saw this video, and I'm honestly not sure that the car was trying to run the motorcycle off the road or anything. It's too sudden of a turn to be that. What I'm pretty sure happened is the driver of the car heard the kick and turned sharply to try and look at what made the noise, and his arms went with him (kind of like how people drift into a lane when they check over their shoulder to see if it's clear a lot of the time). Then he over corrected and started the swerve back towards traffic before repeating the over correction to hit the wall. 

As for cyclists, I have no issues provided they follow the laws. What grinds my gears, however, is when they refuse to follow traffic laws in Boulder and then get pissed at you for honking or not magically predicting their movement and stopping to roll out the red carpet. I've had people get pissed at me when I was creeping forward through the crosswalk with my car waiting to turn right on a red (getting closer to the turn to make it easier) when they had a "do not walk" signal. I've even seen people ignore the traffic lights altogether and walk across traffic that has a green light. It's honestly really stupid in Boulder, and the bi-annual citywide events promoting "pedestrian awareness" (by which they mean, of course, making drivers aware that pedestrians will do whatever the hell they want) only make it worse.