Shaft / Club changes to aid tennis elbow pain?

[bones75]

I have tennis elbow on my right arm (pain on the outside of my right forearm when I hit a good strike, can linger for days).  I have been dealing with it for ages (with doctors/sports therapists).

I play adams CMB's w/ stock KBS C-Taper Regular. I am completely satisfied with how I hit these clubs, but have a few (maybe dumb) questions:

- Would a switch to a "softer" iron (like Mizunos) help?  does a softer feel equate to less vibrations, and would this equate to less irritation of my tendons?  When I hit my current clubs square, it feels pretty damned smooth, but not as "soft" as when i hit a mizuno. How about cavity backs?

- Would a different shaft help?  

Again, I like my clubs, but am willing to change if it may aid my tennis elbow.

Thanks

[WUTiger]

I lost most of the 2016 season with tennis elbow on the right side. I had some irritation early in the season, and it came to a head in an early June tourney when I came out of the rough with a 5i and it felt like lightning had struck my right forearm.

I had steroids and frequent hot-cold therapy,  followed by 10 weeks when I could only chip an putt.

Big problem: It was self-inflicted because I used too much right hand in my shots. On tough shots, I would let the right hand take over and often chunk the shot.

I have since worked to ensure I have good hip kick to lead the downswing, and let the left upper arm guide things down. My right hand still gets in on impact, but now in a beneficial way.

Graphite or Recoil shafts will help lessen shock to the tendons on iron shots, as will Dynamic Golf family shafts with sensicore. These shafts would lessen chances of cumulative trauma damage, but won't prevent acute damage from a flawed swing.

As you get better, get your swing checked out to make sure you don't have a hurtful swing flaw.

[bones75]

@WUTiger I don't use too pressure with my right hand/arm (confirmed by 2 pga pros).  I actually have a similar move to Couples where my right hand pretty much comes off the club. Some have also called me a "whipper" if that matters.  The teachers deduced that my swing is okay (regarding what I do w/ my right arm/hand), but I must have damaged it previously and golf is just bringing it out.  I was a very avid tennis player for about 10 years (granted that was 15 years ago, where I did get tennis elbow once).

Also, I think this might be relevant: I only feel pain on my "good" swings.  Not the fastest swings, and not on my "bad" swings, which is when I get armsy.

Thanks for the shaft advice, I'll look into them.

 

Edited September 17, 2017 by bones75

[IrishAndy]

8 hours ago, bones75 said:

 

- Would a switch to a "softer" iron (like Mizunos) help?  does a softer feel equate to less vibrations, and would this equate to less irritation of my tendons?

I don't think so.  I play Mizunos forged blades and think they have the best feel, but also the most vibrations.  I have been playing around with a forged cavity back head (Mizuno MP30?) but noticed little difference.  Also hit some cavity backs and felt like the MOI improvements and 'dead' feel help reduce vibrations from off-center strikes with the ball, but I felt like many of my irritations were coming from striking down on the dreaded range mat.

Quote

- Would a different shaft help?  

I believe yes.

I played around with different shafts in the same heads.  Project X was miserable, KBS Tour and DG S300 (my stock shaft) were about a 'standard' level of misery, whereas DG XP 95 definitely felt better.  Higher ball flight, but in a nice way, if that makes sense.

Then I tried sensicore in the same XP95 shaft (yes, I went through a lot of grips!), and that was a big step in improvement as well.  Vibration from off-center strikes is so much different, and I think the sound is better too, somehow.  Striking the mat was definitely a little better.  I then changed all of my irons out that way, and am definitely enjoying the improvements in terms of reduced pain.  Short of going graphite (will never happen) I think those are the biggest gains I can make.

Ultimately I think I need to take a separate strike mat to the range to further eliminate the chance of future injury.  Looking at FairwayPro and Fiberbuilt Flight Deck, if anyone has any opinions.

Good luck.  Sucky place to be.  Definitely worth addressing.

Edited September 17, 2017 by IrishAndy

[MarvChamp]

10 hours ago, bones75 said:

I have tennis elbow on my right arm

Bones, I'm real interested in what you find out and do. About 10 days ago , I developed this in my LEFT wrist and arm. I have not picked up a club since, BUT 3 days ago I developed pain in my right hand, palm-side, knuckles area. Sometimes really bad pain. I'm thinking it may be an arthritis flare-up. Seeing Dr. next week as I have a trip to SC that includes golf in 10 days. 

10 hours ago, WUTiger said:

Graphite or Recoil shafts will help lessen shock to the tendons on iron shots, as will Dynamic Golf family shafts with sensicore. These shafts would lessen chances of cumulative trauma damage, but won't prevent acute damage from a flawed swing.

Agree on shafts. I have Nippon light steel in one set; Aldila graphite in another; and Project X graphite in my current playing set. PLUS all are less firm than regular shafts, and I think that may help too. My range is well-maintained grass and I do tend to hit down on the ball and sometimes catch too much turf.

Tiger, please continue letting us know solutions if you think of any more. Thanks to both of you,  -Marv

[chilepepper]

I can't comment on shafts but.....have you tried the forearm band that takes some pressure/tension off the tendon?

[allenc]

Graphite shafts.  Softer larger grips.

[WUTiger]

11 hours ago, bones75 said:

 I was a very avid tennis player for about 10 years (granted that was 15 years ago, where I did get tennis elbow once).

Interesting. Have you been playing golf a long time? I find that former tennis players who switch sports pick up golf fairly quickly, and tend to have compact swings with good acceleration through ball.

Also, you might find the Jimmy Ballard Connections swing literature interesting. He was big on studying hand loading across several sports, and taught Arthur Ashe to play golf.

Congrats, it appears you have a more sustainable swing than I do. I haven't injured myself yet this year, but I still do a right-hand bust chop about twice a round. My left-side lead is improving, however. 

Edited September 17, 2017 by WUTiger
Insert Connections link.

[MarvChamp]

3 hours ago, chilepepper said:

have you tried the forearm band

I have an ACE compression sleeve on now. I think I will go get what you are speaking of. -Marv

[bones75]

Hi all, thanks for the feedback.  Yes I have used the elbow bands and straps (both as prescribed by both my GP and a sports therapist I saw when I was playing a lot of golf a few years back). They help marginally.

I will definitely check out new shafts and grips based on feedback and will report back in a 1-4 weeks when I have time to get them done.

The two PGA pros I saw were both kind of baffled of the pain I was having, because as I noted earlier, I really do not use my right hand/arm on my swing (my hand is really almost off my club at times).  As @WUTiger surmised, I have a very slow shoulder turn, but good lag and a late release... the PGA pro's were both surprised at my smash factor  (they both said it was higher than theirs). My swing is regularly called a "grandpa" swing, very smooth, short-but accurate, and I'm okay* with my distances (I drive ~250 w/ roll, ~270 in previous years).  I've been as low as a 6.4 w my swing in the (now becoming distant) past.

The thing is, I only feel pain on my best of swings.  When I say best, I mean I know I'm swinging in form, the ball sings off the club, and I get my best yardages and control etc...  Bad (even when I swing too fast) swings don't produce any pain for me at all whatsoever.  So it's been this weird thing the last ~7 years that I've been battling it.  I know I'm in good form when my forearm hurts, and when it continues to be painful the next day I almost always had a great round.  If I'm out of form (which I have been a lot these last few years because of long breaks), I don't have any pain at all.  Even if I'm chunking it on mats at the range.

If anyone has any ideas about this, let me know. I'm getting concerned, as I just took a 6 month break off golf, and my first good day out, my arm really started to act up. I'm camera shy in general, but if you feel you really could offer an expert opinion beyond my PGA pro's, I may post a swing video.

*noting that no golfer is "truly" ok w/ their distances.

Edited September 17, 2017 by bones75

[Lihu]

20 hours ago, bones75 said:

I have tennis elbow on my right arm (pain on the outside of my right forearm when I hit a good strike, can linger for days).  I have been dealing with it for ages (with doctors/sports therapists).

I play adams CMB's w/ stock KBS C-Taper Regular. I am completely satisfied with how I hit these clubs, but have a few (maybe dumb) questions:

- Would a switch to a "softer" iron (like Mizunos) help?  does a softer feel equate to less vibrations, and would this equate to less irritation of my tendons?  When I hit my current clubs square, it feels pretty damned smooth, but not as "soft" as when i hit a mizuno. How about cavity backs?

- Would a different shaft help?  

Again, I like my clubs, but am willing to change if it may aid my tennis elbow.

Thanks

Your clubs sound fine, the KBS shafts are regular so you've got the best setup for "soft"

 

8 hours ago, allenc said:

Graphite shafts.  Softer larger grips.

Even without graphite shafts wrap more tape and a softer grip might work well.

[RussUK]

Elbow bands can help in the recovery of both golfers/tennis elbow (affect different sides of the elbow) and wrist issues like tenosenovitis (had it and its awful). Using Graphite or lighter steel shafts can help prevent it from re-occuring, however the only way to get rid of Golf/Tennis elbow is to stop playing till its healed.

I took 3 months till i could move my wrist and another 3 before i could hit full shots. With ligament/tendon injuries you really cant rush them. Its easier to fix a broken bone that a torn ligament/tendon.