What do you consider the most stupid rule in golf?

[Goonsidious]

oh my goodness. I will never do that again ha.

[MEfree]

For me today it was a two stroke penalty for hitting the flag stick while on the the green.  I had about a 40 footer with 10 feet of break and went ahead and putted before any of the 3 guys I was playing with was standing next to the stick, although one was only 5 or 10 feet away when I got over the ball.  As the ball got closer, he realized it had a chance and went to pull the stick, but was too late and the ball hit the center of the stick and dropped in.

To me, 17-3c could be done away with without hurting the game in any way shape or form.  My guess is that most players would still take out the stick, but who really cares if they leave it in...sometime the stick might help (like me today?) and sometimes it might hurt.  Removing 17-3c would simplify things a bit without hurting the game.

Speaking of handicaps...do I have a vanity handicap if I don`t count the penalty (the ball had a bit of speed and may or may not have gone it had it not hit the stick) or am I a sand bagger if I take the penalty??

Originally Posted by Putridgasbag

I do believe that modern courses and specifically the residential type do warrant a new look at OB and the penalties associated with it.

At my home course there is one hole with out of bounds down the right side due to a runway and around 260ish yards a lateral hazard runs through the course and out of bounds. From the tee box the hazard is partially visible though any ball entering it isn't visible for long so it is possible for a ball to enter the hazard and then come to rest OB or in the hazard but neither will be easily visible or even findable. It is really hard to determine some times where the ball crossed either the hazard or the OB. The difference in the penalty is huge. From the hazard the drop will leave you a shot and not a particularly hard one and the OB well it leaves a the walk back and it is all up to where you "think" the ball went out. I wish on that hole that the penalty was similar for both and it would remove a lot worries about where the ball ended up. Not being able to hit a provisional for a ball thought to be in a hazard comes into play as well on this hole.

I completely agree with you- it would make much more sense and lead to more compliance if OB/WH/LBs were all treated like lateral water hazards...this is more or less what the majority of players I see do anyways.

[ApocG10]

Originally Posted by divot dave

I suppose I can live with that explanation... but I still think its a crummy rule. In my situation, I simply let the club head touch the sand before starting my swing... and boom... 1 stroke penalty. No sand moved, (well barely)...

now there's yet another thing i need to practice... just as i thought i was getting the feel for bunker play too...  I gotta learn how to swing accurately from a starting point that is actually higher than where the ball rests.

The point is, the bunker is the only place where you are supposed to hit the ground before the ball, using the sand to push the ball out of the bunker. Touching the sand gives you a feel for how the club will react to it. Thats why you may not test your lie in the hazard.

[Shorty]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

What Jack is wearing is a true turtleneck.  The turtleneck is a collar.

And I challenge anyone to find a picture of Tiger wearing a Mock Turtleneck in the last 4 years. He doesn't wear them any more.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by MEfree

Speaking of handicaps...do I have a vanity handicap if I don`t count the penalty (the ball had a bit of speed and may or may not have gone it had it not hit the stick) or am I a sand bagger if I take the penalty??

Vanity IF you really think the ball would have missed, and honest if you think it would have still fallen.  If you weren't sure, and since it's a rule you obviously know, and would (probably) never break in a competition, not counting the penalty seems more representative of your true handicap.

[MEfree]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Vanity IF you really think the ball would have missed, and honest if you think it would have still fallen.  If you weren't sure, and since it's a rule you obviously know, and would (probably) never break in a competition, not counting the penalty seems more representative of your true handicap.

Hard to say.  I think there was and an 80+% chance it would have gone in without the stick.  It was`t going fast, but it probably would have been 4 or 5 feet away had it missed the hole entirely...

In either case, what it the point of the rule?  Maybe the stick helps sometimes, but I have seen other times where it doesn`t.  I doubt many good players would start leaving the stick in when putting if the rule were deleted (and so what if they did- same opportunity for everyone).

[MEfree]

Today, I rode the back 9 and with the wind swirling and changing directions a bunch took 4 clubs over to my ball on one hole.  I used one and laid the other 3 about 3-4 feet away in a pile that generally pointed at the hole, but without all the clubs being perfectly parallel to each other.  One of the guys I was playing with warned me in a nice way this could be construed as an aid and that someone might call it on me in a tournament.  Not sure if his point was valid...anyone know what rule he was referring to?

Regarding handicaps and honesty- Is it more honest to turn in a score that follows the rules or a score that the player thinks is more representative of their true handicap?  I am not sure of the answer but it seems to me that if the rules were simpler and more in line with how most golfers actually play then we wouldn`t have to ask this question.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by MEfree

Hard to say.  I think there was and an 80+% chance it would have gone in without the stick.  It was`t going fast, but it probably would have been 4 or 5 feet away had it missed the hole entirely...

In either case, what it the point of the rule?  Maybe the stick helps sometimes, but I have seen other times where it doesn`t.  I doubt many good players would start leaving the stick in when putting if the rule were deleted (and so what if they did- same opportunity for everyone).

The point of the rule is exactly what you would think.  So that your read for speed and break matches with your stroke and don't get any assistance from the flagstick.  The same reason I leave the flag in when I have a slippery downhill putt from the fringe, so that I have that backstop, just in case I happen to read everything but the speed right.  Using the flagstick on chips and pitches has saved me many times over the years, either by holing the shot, or by leaving a much shorter following shot.  The rules just limit that assistance to shots taken from off the green.  The reasoning probably develops from the impracticality of removing the flagstick when making a stroke from 200 yards out.  The only defined area of the course near every hole is the putting green, so the boundary for such shots is applied there.

[MEfree]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

The point of the rule is exactly what you would think.  So that your read for speed and break matches with your stroke and don't get any assistance from the flagstick.  The same reason I leave the flag in when I have a slippery downhill putt from the fringe, so that I have that backstop, just in case I happen to read everything but the speed right.  Using the flagstick on chips and pitches has saved me many times over the years, either by holing the shot, or by leaving a much shorter following shot.  The rules just limit that assistance to shots taken from off the green.  The reasoning probably develops from the impracticality of removing the flagstick when making a stroke from 200 yards out.  The only defined area of the course near every hole is the putting green, so the boundary for such shots is applied there.

So how much do you think your average score or the average score for a PGA Tour pro would drop if they were allowed to use the flagstick on the green?

My guess is that the same guy would win 99.9% of the time if this rule was eliminated and you would see only a small fractional drop in scoring (if any change at all).  In my mind, a rule that doesn`t have any practical effect on competition is unnecessary, especially when it can slow down play (as it would have done for me yesterday had I waited for someone in my group to position themselves next to the stick).

[Fore Left]

Originally Posted by MEfree

Today, I rode the back 9 and with the wind swirling and changing directions a bunch took 4 clubs over to my ball on one hole.  I used one and laid the other 3 about 3-4 feet away in a pile that generally pointed at the hole, but without all the clubs being perfectly parallel to each other.  One of the guys I was playing with warned me in a nice way this could be construed as an aid and that someone might call it on me in a tournament.  Not sure if his point was valid...anyone know what rule he was referring t

I believe the rule of "aides" he is referring to is one that states using something to line up a shot  (laying a club at your feet for instance to see your swing-line etc)    Can dropping 3 clubs randomly on the ground,  yet somewhat pointed at the center/left/right of the green be determined to be in violation of this rule???   "I guess maybe???!!??"

I guess it'd be a judgement call for anyone who is in a position to call the rule....

It's interesting  (off topic I guess)  that a buddy would point this out.   I will state a rule if it's "obscure"  while walking up a fairway etc. so my playing partners know,  as an  "FYI"  etc...  but I never police my playing partners....  and they never police me.   I just do my best to play by all of the rules I know so I can feel good about playing the game as it was intended to be played.

I guess I never play my buddies for money etc. though,  so I have no reason to jump all over them when they roll a ball out of a divot etc.

Another off-topic thought....   When you play by the rules,  as opposed to a  "Fluff it up a little in the rough here"    "move it 6 inches from the tree here so I don't break my club"   "Oh I'm in a divot"    "Oh I'm on the lip from the fringe to the green,  better move it 2 inches back onto the fringe"   etc....    the game is MUCH tougher.....    I don't get why people don't play by the rules.   If the game is too hard/frustrating,  just play easier courses!

[divot dave]

Originally Posted by Fore Left

I believe the rule of "aides" he is referring to is one that states using something to line up a shot  (laying a club at your feet for instance to see your swing-line etc)    Can dropping 3 clubs randomly on the ground,  yet somewhat pointed at the center/left/right of the green be determined to be in violation of this rule???   "I guess maybe???!!??"

I guess it'd be a judgement call for anyone who is in a position to call the rule....

Do you think that pointing your club across the chest violates this rule as well? As a beginner I do that a lot.

[Fore Left]

Originally Posted by divot dave

Do you think that pointing your club across the chest violates this rule as well? As a beginner I do that a lot.

I don't know,  hopefully a teaching pro or someone much more knowledgeable can shed some light on it,  but I think the distinction  (assuming pointing it across your chest is in fact within the rules)   would be the fact that a club at your feet remains there while you're taking the shot.

Also,  you might find it better to visualize a line from toe-to-toe on your feet,  and use that as an alignment tool,  as your feet position has more to do with alignment than whatever way you happen to be pivoting your torso.....

[iacas]

Originally Posted by MEfree

So how much do you think your average score or the average score for a PGA Tour pro would drop if they were allowed to use the flagstick on the green?

My guess is that the same guy would win 99.9% of the time if this rule was eliminated and you would see only a small fractional drop in scoring (if any change at all).  In my mind, a rule that doesn`t have any practical effect on competition is unnecessary, especially when it can slow down play (as it would have done for me yesterday had I waited for someone in my group to position themselves next to the stick).

It would change the way pros play three to five footers, don't you think?

You're guessing. Enough said. It has an effect on competition, and it's a sport - it's already got a bunch of arbitrary rules. None of them at all are "necessary."

Originally Posted by Fore Left

I believe the rule of "aides" he is referring to is one that states using something to line up a shot  (laying a club at your feet for instance to see your swing-line etc)    Can dropping 3 clubs randomly on the ground,  yet somewhat pointed at the center/left/right of the green be determined to be in violation of this rule???   "I guess maybe???!!??"

...

It's interesting  (off topic I guess)  that a buddy would point this out.   I will state a rule if it's "obscure"  while walking up a fairway etc. so my playing partners know,  as an  "FYI"  etc...  but I never police my playing partners....  and they never police me.   I just do my best to play by all of the rules I know so I can feel good about playing the game as it was intended to be played.

That's the rule, but for the second part, I think his buddy was trying to be helpful. For example someone's inadvertently standing on the line of their partner's putt, and I don't care in a little match, but I'll sometimes point out that they have to be careful about that in a tournament (many people think it's legal because he's your partner, and illegal for opponents, when the opposite is true [etiquette issues aside]).

Originally Posted by divot dave

Do you think that pointing your club across the chest violates this rule as well? As a beginner I do that a lot.

That's not the same rule. You don't have someone hold a club across your chest as you swing.

[showtime583]

Question to the group....I was playing with a buddy last weekend and he had a blind shot to the green over a mounded bunker. Prior to hitting his shot, he walked to the top of the mound, directly between his ball and the hole, took the rake from the bunker and laid it on top of the mound to use as an aiming point.

Is this a penalty?

[iacas]

Originally Posted by showtime583

Question to the group....I was playing with a buddy last weekend and he had a blind shot to the green over a mounded bunker. Prior to hitting his shot, he walked to the top of the mound, directly between his ball and the hole, took the rake from the bunker and laid it on top of the mound to use as an aiming point.

Is this a penalty?

Yes.

The Rules of Golf, like much of everything these days, is online: http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Rules-and-Decisions/ .

8-2 . Indicating Line Of Play

a . Other Than on Putting Green

Except on the putting green , a player may have the line of play indicated to him by anyone, but no one may be positioned by the player on or close to the line or an extension of the line beyond the hole while the stroke is being made. Any mark placed by the player or with his knowledge to indicate the line must be removed before the stroke is made.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by showtime583

Question to the group....I was playing with a buddy last weekend and he had a blind shot to the green over a mounded bunker. Prior to hitting his shot, he walked to the top of the mound, directly between his ball and the hole, took the rake from the bunker and laid it on top of the mound to use as an aiming point.

Is this a penalty?

Yes.  I don't know the specifics (1 shot, 2 shots, whatever) but I'm fairly cetain you cannot do that.  I always try to find a treetop that is in the distance.

Oh, but here's a related question.  Can a playing partner mark it for you (temporarily)?  For example, we share a cart, I've hit mine in the wrong fairway and he drops me off at the ball.  As he's driving over to his ball back in the middle of the fairway, he pauses at the top of the hill, waves at me to 'aim here' basically then continues driving on.

EDIT:  Aha!  Erik already answered both above.  Thanks!

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by iacas

Yes.

The Rules of Golf, like much of everything these days, is online: http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Rules-and-Decisions/ .

8-2. Indicating Line Of Play

a. Other Than on Putting Green

Except on the putting green, a player may have the line of play indicated to him by anyone, but no one may be positioned by the player on or close to the line or an extension of the line beyond the hole while the stroke is being made. Any mark placed by the player or with his knowledge to indicate the line must be removed before the stroke is made.

A little clarification to be sure ... Does "indicated to him by anyone" mean that I could ask an opponent to do so (or offer) without it being considered asking for (or giving) advice?

[showtime583]

Originally Posted by iacas

Yes.

The Rules of Golf, like much of everything these days, is online: http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Rules-and-Decisions/ .

8-2. Indicating Line Of Play

a. Other Than on Putting Green

Except on the putting green, a player may have the line of play indicated to him by anyone, but no one may be positioned by the player on or close to the line or an extension of the line beyond the hole while the stroke is being made. Any mark placed by the player or with his knowledge to indicate the line must be removed before the stroke is made.

Thanks Erik. To clarify, this would be a two-stroke penalty in stroke play or loss of hole in match play?

In stroke play, if he hits the green with his second shot, he would then be putting for a 5 instead of a 3?