Should I dump my 5 iron? Confused about manufacturers loft.

[yanni]

Was on the range today practising. I was hitting my 7 iron very solidly. I also hit my 6 iron quite well around 5-10 yards further which is OK. I had trouble with my 5 iron though. Ball flight was much lower than with the 6 and not longer than the 6. I also got some mishits. I checked the lofts of my Cobra F7 irons and I think this may explain something. 

3    18°     
4    20°   
5    23°      
6    26°     
7    30°       
8    35°    
9    40° 
PW    45°    
GW    50°    
SW    55°    

If you compare those values to those values you will see quite a lot of difference. (I also checked out Taylor Made and those clubs have even less loft than this)

http://murdofrazer.com/golf-equipment/golf-clubs/golf-club-angles-and-distances

I think what they sell as a 5 iron would have been a 4 or even 3 iron in the past ! The 3 iron would even have been a 1 iron ! So I think I am not hitting a 5 iron here but at least a 4 iron. I also carry a 21.5 Hybrid which goes way longer and higher than my 5 iron which I hit it quite well. This would be like a 4 iron in this set. A 23 Hybrid could replace my 5 iron (which is actually more like a 4 iron) but I am afraid the gap to the 6 iron could be too big.

What I also realize now that my 8 iron (which I hardly use) is more like an 7 iron. So I probably should use and practise this more. 

Can anybody comment about those lofts? I am kind of confused since all those general "laws" like ball position etc. which is true for short, middle and long irons somehow shift with sets like this.

(I feel a little bit better now about not hitting the iron 5 as a beginner ;) )

Edited November 11, 2017 by yanni

[Uncle Stosh]

I wouldn't get too caught up in the idea of a 4 iron or 5 iron and instead keep focused on the loft which is a more accurate way to talk about your clubs. For instance, while your lofts are very strong they have the same gap between degrees. I think that when people see these lofts, they think the manufacturer is just trying to get cheap distance by mislabeling the clubs but that is not correct. For clarity, I would say there are three loft eras. Classic(5I=27degrees), Modern(5I=26 degrees) and Game Improvement(GI)(5I=23 or 24 degrees). Why have they changed? As technology around the ball, club face and shaft have changed, the ability to launch the ball higher and higher has emerged. Since you can now get more height it made sense for manufacturers to combine this new launch height with stronger lofts for distance so that players could increase distance throughout their set without losing stopping power. It basically brought to the amateur, in the Game improvement category, some of the benefits that a 112mph pro swinger has. As for your question, I would look to change out the shaft in your 5 iron from the OEM stock True Temper shaft to the True Temper XP. You will see an immediate improvement in peak height.

Edited November 11, 2017 by Uncle Stosh

[yanni]

I am playing graphite shafts. Still I am curious what changing shafts would mean on this 5 iron?

[MarvChamp]

3 hours ago, yanni said:

I had trouble with my 5 iron though. Ball flight was much lower than with the 6 and not longer than the 6.

I suggest it may be the swing, not the shafts, when a golfer hits different irons the same distance. I had that problem when I came back to golf...It was a weak, over the top, outside in path. The coach worked on my posture, keeping my right elbow tucked, and side bend in the downswing. Plus, oddly enough, I was playing the ball too far back in my stance. Anyway, I've probably said too much if I've said anything at all. Best regards, -Marv

[yanni]

I am pretty sure it comes down to my swing in the end and I cannot blame the 5 iron. I will take a pro lesson and asking about the 5 iron. Still curious about the the 5 hybrid though.  

[Lihu]

10 minutes ago, yanni said:

I am pretty sure it comes down to my swing in the end and I cannot blame the 5 iron. I will take a pro lesson and asking about the 5 iron. Still curious about the the 5 hybrid though.  

You're not alone. The 5i and 4i are pretty iffy for me as well. I'm only lucky that I only use them off the tee or for punch shots on rare occasions.

Try choking up on them and get used to hitting them choked up and gradually reduce the amount you choke up. That might help?

Edited November 11, 2017 by Lihu

[allenc]

4 hours ago, yanni said:

Was on the range today practising. I was hitting my 7 iron very solidly. I also hit my 6 iron quite well around 5-10 yards further which is OK. I had trouble with my 5 iron though. Ball flight was much lower than with the 6 and not longer than the 6. I also got some mishits. I checked the lofts of my Cobra F7 irons and I think this may explain something. 

3    18°     
4    20°   
5    23°      
6    26°     
7    30°       
8    35°    
9    40° 
PW    45°    
GW    50°    
SW    55°    

If you compare those values to those values you will see quite a lot of difference. (I also checked out Taylor Made and those clubs have even less loft than this)

http://murdofrazer.com/golf-equipment/golf-clubs/golf-club-angles-and-distances

I think what they sell as a 5 iron would have been a 4 or even 3 iron in the past ! The 3 iron would even have been a 1 iron ! So I think I am not hitting a 5 iron here but at least a 4 iron. I also carry a 21.5 Hybrid which goes way longer and higher than my 5 iron which I hit it quite well. This would be like a 4 iron in this set. A 23 Hybrid could replace my 5 iron (which is actually more like a 4 iron) but I am afraid the gap to the 6 iron could be too big.

What I also realize now that my 8 iron (which I hardly use) is more like an 7 iron. So I probably should use and practise this more. 

Can anybody comment about those lofts? I am kind of confused since all those general "laws" like ball position etc. which is true for short, middle and long irons somehow shift with sets like this.

(I feel a little bit better now about not hitting the iron 5 as a beginner ;) )

Unless you have a very fast swing speed there will be a point of diminishing returns as iron lofts decrease.  The wise choice is to use a hybrid at that point.  As for the bolded, most of the time you will need a higher loft hybrid to replace an iron.  The shafts are longer, the faces hotter, the center of gravity lower and farther back, so they will go higher and farther.  You should experiment with hybrids from 24 to 26 degrees to replace your 5 iron.

[Denny Bang Bang]

1 hour ago, yanni said:

I am pretty sure it comes down to my swing in the end and I cannot blame the 5 iron. I will take a pro lesson and asking about the 5 iron. Still curious about the the 5 hybrid though.  

As you and @MarvChamp have noted, it’s more likely due to the swing itself.

Hybrids are typically more forgiving than long irons.  Hit some 5 hybrids and see how you feel about them compared to your 5i.  If it winds up being a better result, then choose whichever loft gives you the best distance gap.

[WUTiger]

9 hours ago, yanni said:

I am playing graphite shafts. Still I am curious what changing shafts would mean on this 5 iron?

Graphite shafts would be more helpful in getting the ball up than steel shafts. A very strong local pro dumped his set's 3 iron, and bought a replacement 3 iron which he fitted with a graphite shaft. All his other irons and wedges have steel shafts.

I like your idea: get a lesson, and see if the pro can find any swing flaws which hurt your longer iron play.

Once you get a lesson and practice what you have learned, try a 6i anf 5i comparison again. Many average golfers have a point in their iron set at which the 6i and 5i go the same distance, or maybe the 5i and 4i fly the same distance (or, maybe the 4i actually flies shorter).

At the equal distance point, golfers would drop the longer iron and add in a corresponding hybrid. This is known as gap analysis. (Clubfitters also do gap analysis to determine which combination of wedge lofts a player needs. Ideally, the wedges would fall 10-12 yards apart on full shots.)

Let us know how things develop on your 5i challenges.

Edited November 12, 2017 by WUTiger

[inthecup]

I hit my 5 iron pretty well.  I still swapped in a 5H because it is easier to hit.  It goes high and stops.  It delivers a heavy blow and is easier to hit out of the rough.

My driver swing speed is around 100 to put it in perspective.  

 

Some people are saying "graphite shaft" like that defines its characteristics?   Modern graphite shafts can have the same characteristics as steel.

I can get tendonitis in my elbow/forearm and my fitter put me in Steel Fiber graphite shafts.  They are stiff and they make stiffer.  I really like the shafts by the way and my tendonitis has not flared up since I got them.  The downside it they are pricey. 

[Mr. Desmond]

The new clubs lower the loft for less spin but they launch higher, theoretically giving you more distance.

Check the shaft lengths on those irons - is the 5i, even in graphite, more than 38 inches? Typically, low lofted irons offer issues because the shaft length is longer, which to me, makes the club less forgiving. Even with hybrids, although I go for a slightly lighter shaft than my irons, is no more than .5 inches more than the comparable iron.

Sure, it's LOFT issue, but a more fundamentally sound swing will help as well as offer added speed (or we can hope).

[WUTiger]

On 11/13/2017 at 12:07 PM, Mr. Desmond said:

Check the shaft lengths on those irons - is the 5i, even in graphite, more than 38 inches? Typically, low lofted irons offer issues because the shaft length is longer, which to me, makes the club less forgiving.

This reminds me of club designer Tom Wishon's 24/38 rule: The average golfer doesn't have the swing skills to hit an iron that has less than 24° loft and a shaft longer than 38 inches.

[Mr. Desmond]

1 hour ago, WUTiger said:

This reminds me of club designer Tom Wishon's 24/38 rule: The average golfer doesn't have the swing skills to hit an iron that has less than 24° loft and a shaft longer than 38 inches.

And that's where I am - 38 inches but 23 of loft in a 5i - with today's high launching clubs, most can go lower in loft. Just waiting for my 5i to get back from the clubmaker - I could not take a 50g shaft - putting a matching 75g shaft like my other irons.

 

[AlDena]

This is an interesting subject to me, as I never even looked at the specs of the clubs I bought this year. Until now.... 

With the TM Aeroburner Irons, the 5i is 22 degrees loft, 38.25 inch shaft, and the 4i is 19 degrees with a 38.88 shaft. I hit both them pretty well, since I have always liked a 2 iron in the past. These things launch so friggin high, my buddy is always asking what I hit, and his guess is usually 1 to 2 clubs higher, numerically speaking. I'm still not used to looking up that high on a 5i shot.