The tired all arms hook swing

[TropicalSandTrap]

Any thoughts or tips to think about when battling the tired all arms hook that can creep up?

what happens a lot is I get a lazy swing and the arms race ahead of the body and I hit low hooks. 

On the range it doesn’t happen much. I hit balls a lot with a camera behind me and the range swing is good (plane, contact, dispersion are all fine for the most part).

Most of the time on the course the swing is fine too, but then I hit these ruts. It really comes out with the driver, although the low trap draw can also come out with the mid and long irons (and of course fairway woods)

It happens out on the course when I get a little timid at times, afraid of taking an aggressive swing at the ball for fear of a big mistake, or tired and trying to muscle the ball out there

i can feel it happening when it does.  I need a mental thought to help me get over it when it appears  

sometimes I thought of holding off a bit and supinating the left wrist, and this was a disaster (holding off and hitting way before the ball)

i have tried to think of keeping that right elbow closer to the body but have really struggled with implementing that swing thought.  This might help if I can get a better grasp of what this should feel like  

trying to think of firing my hips through or more body action hasn’t been a big success, but again I might need to just tune this swing though in a bit  

I generally play a right to left Shot with my common miss spot being low toe  

Thanks for the help

I think something like this might help

 

 

Edited November 20, 2017 by TropicalSandTrap

[iacas]

I don't really understand.

"I hit a bad shot when I don't do this thing I know about."

So… just don't do that thing.

Isn't this like the old joke where the guy says "Doc, it hurts when I do this." and the doctor says "Then don't do that."

[Marty2019]

Okay, so, when the club face closes, it de-lofts the club face and spins the ball, producing the low hook.  This happens to me sometimes, and what I try to do which (sometimes) fixes it is to try not to let my right hand roll over too soon or too much at impact.  

I think when your body gets tired, things fire at different rates, the golf swing gets out of sync, and the strongest parts of your body take over.   If you are a right handed person, the right hand takes over, and too much right hand causes the club face to roll over at impact. 

At least, I think that's what causes it, for me. 

 

Edited November 21, 2017 by Marty2019

[saevel25]

1 hour ago, Marty2019 said:

Okay, so, when the club face closes, it de-lofts the club face and spins the ball, producing the low hook.

Relative to the swing path. A pull cut is the closed to the target line (ball starts left), but open to the swing path (curves right).

1 hour ago, Marty2019 said:

This happens to me sometimes, and what I try to do which (sometimes) fixes it is to try not to let my right hand roll over too soon or too much at impact. 

I would say it is extremely hard to fine tune the rate of closure to the point that a golfer has thinkable control over it.

It would be better served for the golfer to fix something else in their swing to make their swing more consistent. Example, a golfer swings over the top, in order to not chunk the ball they add a little flip to the swing. The flip accelerates the rate of closure. It would be better fix the over the top move than try to teach them to manipulate the rate of closure.

1 hour ago, Marty2019 said:

I think when your body gets tired, things fire at different rates, the golf swing gets out of sync, and the strongest parts of your body take over.   If you are a right handed person, the right hand takes over, and too much right hand causes the club face to roll over at impact. 

I don't think suddenly your left arm gets more tired than your right arm. It might be more that a tired golf swing produces lack of turn, which then can cause arms to get out of sync and speed up rate of closure. I would not specifically tie it to just the right hand.

[Marty2019]

1 hour ago, saevel25 said:

Relative to the swing path. A pull cut is the closed to the target line (ball starts left), but open to the swing path (curves right).

I would say it is extremely hard to fine tune the rate of closure to the point that a golfer has thinkable control over it.

It would be better served for the golfer to fix something else in their swing to make their swing more consistent. Example, a golfer swings over the top, in order to not chunk the ball they add a little flip to the swing. The flip accelerates the rate of closure. It would be better fix the over the top move than try to teach them to manipulate the rate of closure.

I don't think suddenly your left arm gets more tired than your right arm. It might be more that a tired golf swing produces lack of turn, which then can cause arms to get out of sync and speed up rate of closure. I would not specifically tie it to just the right hand.

Here's how I see it.  First of all, we don't know what's wrong with his swing because we can't see it, so we have to operate on some assumptions.  It could be a number of things, but to me, this is the most obvious:

If you stand at address position, then close the club face and re-grip the club with the club face closed, that will produce a low hook.  Because you've de-lofted the club and your normal swing will then spin the ball counter-clockwise.  Ball starts low, and curves to the left.  So, it could be caused by a premature closing of the club face at impact.  (Again, I'm assuming that his normal swing is down the line at the target and he normally hits the ball squarely.)  I'm not saying he's addressing the ball with the club face closed; I'm saying he could be striking the ball with his club face closed, because that's the easiest way I know to produce a low hooking shot-  de-loft the club and spin the ball counter-clockwise.

It's just a possibility. 

But you're right, it could be anything.  I don't know. 

But IF (a very big IF) this is the cause, then how does he fix it?  That's where it gets tricky.  What I do is try to avoid rolling my hands over prematurely.  I try to keep the club face more open at impact. 

 

Edited November 21, 2017 by Marty2019

[rehmwa]

I get a similar thing when I get fatigued.  It's a pull though, not a hook.  But I'm aware of it so if it starts to creep up, I have to focus at bit more on finishing that follow through.  Pretty much only on the drive, but still, it's annoying.

try a couple practice swings (I know, it'll make you more tired) with a step through drill (Gary Player drill?) to remind your body

other things you likely already tried -

• Holding off the 'release' (whatever that means) - but that's not the swing, it's just handsy, probably not a great idea if it's not a normal swing thought
• relax the right elbow - sometimes I find my right elbow nearly locked out instead of loose....I mean less thinking about keeping it close, but more about it hanging comfy and down (not tight, and not chicken wing)
• meh - others ideas
• really, though, you have to just return to the swing that works rather than bandaid yourself when the issue emerges.  So I'm still sticking with the step through drill since you said you get 'armsy', then a reminder to finish your hip turn is likely a good thing

good luck figuring it out.

[iacas]

4 hours ago, saevel25 said:

I would say it is extremely hard to fine tune the rate of closure to the point that a golfer has thinkable control over it.

That's not what he said, though.

Many people, when the body gets a little tired (often more the core, but people think their legs are the contributor), the arms can speed past and the ROC goes up a little bit as the overtaking rate goes up a little bit, so they can hit some pull-hooks.

[TropicalSandTrap]

Yeah it’s the type of thing that creeps up during a round, and pretty sure it’s due to lack of body involvement in the swing. 

If I’m on a range and I do a couple of them I can usually fix it 5 minutes. Problem is 5 minutes on the range is 5-10 swings, and you don’t get that many swings on the course to correct it. If it lasts 4 swings your round just took a serious hit in those middle rounds and then confidence is shot and so on. 

I also have a tight lower back which adds to the problem. Not as flexible as I used to be. 

Just need some swing thoughts to help thought it. And I will try them on the range and if they work great and if they don’t, well thanks for trying. 

[Buckeyebowman]

I think the word "tired" in the title of your post speaks volumes. When you get tired toward the end of the round, you can forget to keep your body moving. Your arms and hands start flapping around, and who knows what kind of mischief that can cause!