Is there certain section of the golfing population left behind by course design/tee length?

[cutchemist42]

Lately I've been thinking about the design of things and how they  handle inclusion/exclusion. Part of this comes from my discussions with my partner; she is a landscape architect so we often talk about parks/playgrounds/landscaping and this leads naturally to golf course design.

Part of my thought is also inspired by the Longleaf system of tees that was briefly discussed a few months ago, as well as thinking back to rounds played with my sister who would fit into the white category of the Long Leaf system.

 

I think back to rounds we have played together both at a par3 and normal municipal courses in Winnipeg. I think back to my experience of the par 3 and contrast it to hers.

• She hit driver on 7 holes; 5w on 1 hole; 7i on 1 hole
• I used 7 different clubs from 3hy to SW

I think back to that round and try to put myself in her shoes.......would that  variety of tee shots be enjoyable? I enjoy variety in that situation and would not have liked it. I also know par is just a number, and that all women are playing from the same tees and have the same comparability. I just think the variety could be improved.

My sister is a 3-4/month golfer who isnt too serious; she will keep score and is obviously pumped when she legit nails par. If I had to guess her legit HI if I understand women's HI right, it would be max.

It just got me thinking though about how large the demographic is that current tee designs dont ideally fit them? How big is the inclusion/exclusion for people that should maybe have  4000ish yard courses?

I think of the upcoming Summer and mapped out a more ideal round for her yardage on Google Maps. What I put together looks a lot more fun for someone like her. I could see myself suggesting she tee off closer on the fairway the next time we play.

 

 

 

[iacas]

On 4/12/2018 at 8:12 PM, cutchemist42 said:

It just got me thinking though about how large the demographic is that current tee designs dont ideally fit them? How big is the inclusion/exclusion for people that should maybe have  4000ish yard courses?

A bogey woman player drives the ball 150 yards and hits second shots up to 130 yards (280 yards is a long par four).

18 holes of that length is 5,040 yards. Now, that's "max" distance for the defined bogey golfer (a course handicap of about 24), and so that's not a very good golfer at all.

What's more, the number of golfers in that category are very small. They include juniors, which probably make up the majority these days, but…

The LongLeaf system says you don't need actual tee boxes. Just tee up from somewhere in the fairway. Make your own hole. They do this for 9-year-olds playing US Kids Golf - they play from 1900 yards over nine holes. Sometimes the tee "flags" are in the fairway, sometimes they're in the rough, sometimes they're on the tee box of a par three that they call a par four for the kids… whatever.

If you're worried about your wife being bored hitting driver all the time… well, most of her clubs probably go the same distance until she learns to hit it farther by swinging harder.

[The Hook Meister]

I don't think its possible to design a course that does not handicap some golfers in some way. Designers are designing courses to attract the pro tours, they are money makers, not so much for the weekend duffer.

[iacas]

1 minute ago, The Hook Meister said:

I don't think its possible to design a course that does not handicap some golfers in some way. Designers are designing courses to attract the pro tours, they are money makers, not so much for the weekend duffer.

Uhmmmmmm, no.

[ncates00]

On 4/14/2018 at 2:30 PM, iacas said:

Just tee up from somewhere in the fairway. Make your own hole.

This.  We do it with the kids all the time.  My buddies and I even do it sometimes to make an "exciting" driveable par 4 or make a hole much longer like the pros, etc.

[chilepepper]

I don’t see folks being left behind......unless it’s self imposed by playing the tips 

[Buckeyebowman]

That's what they've done at Mill Creek. As you walk down the blacktop cartpath you'll see painted "Kid's Tees" and an arrow. Walk out and on the edge of the fairway you'll find a closely mown area with tee markers.

As a senior, one of the things I've noticed at some of the newer courses around are the green "complexes". And some of them are damned complex! Mounding, humps and bumps, different turf grasses and cuts, and greens that have a lot of contour and are just freaking huge!

If you don't put you're approach somewhere in the vicinity of the flagstick, it will be a heroic effort to get down in two.

[fishgolf]

One of the courses we play in Yuma has 5 different tee boxes; each listing the suggested handicap range.  We get a kick out of those who are obviously over challenging themselves - at least until it begins to slow play.

[RussUK]

I dont think anyone is left behind as such. Golfers will adapt their game to the course they are playing but it may cause some less than ideal situations for higher handicappers. Longer holes may mean longer 2nd, 3rd shots but if the designers factor this in by providing the appropriate tee's then it can offset the extra length.

However, i dont think different tees can help much with those "Off day" swings

[DaveP043]

I think that in general, newer designs have a lot more tee options than older courses ever had.  What I remember from my earliest days were three sets of tees, and often with relatively small differences in yardages between them.  Now I see four or five tees, sometimes even more, and a much bigger variation in yardages between them.  Certainly very short hitters, children, beginners, should be encouraged to tee it up even closer to the green, but I think courses are doing a decent job of including as many different levels of ability as possible.

[WUTiger]

When my wife and I play golf out of town, I always look for women's tees that are just under 5000 yards in length.

At this length, she can hit most par 4s in regulation if she hits two decent shots. Strokes are lost when she misses a shot that goes 20 yards.

As far as course designs go, it's more than just length. At my home course we have four par 4 holes that are 320 yds. or less from the men's tees. Two of them are those *%$*! risk-reward holes that often produce the highest scores of par 4 holes for the average golfer. The pair have well-bunkered funhouse greens, and unless you're a dart-thrower with your wedge you can run long or back off the green into bunkers.

The scorecard puts these two at #15 and #14 HDCP, but the Senior Group has designated them as #5 and #6 HDCP for our weekly best-ball scoring.

 

 

 

[Buckeyebowman]

You hit the nail on the head, WU! There's a Pete Dye course east of Cleveland called Fowler's Mill. The 10th hole is a little par 4 of about 330-335 yards! It is so loaded up w/danger it's hard to describe. There's a dozen different ways to get in trouble on that hole! But from the tee it looks so benign.