12 HS players DQ’d from Tournament

[krupa]

9 minutes ago, colin007 said:

So was it definitely a rules official?

That's what they're saying https://www.golfdigest.com/story/bizarre-turn-in-story-of-dqed-high-school-golfers-players-administrators-say-rules-official-told-them-to-hit-from-wrong-tee-then-denied-it

There are a lot of people quoted in the article which makes it a little hard to follow, but basically the kids asked a coach who asked a rules official. 

 

[rehmwa]

8 hours ago, Nwehrman said:

Alright man. Technically by the rulebook they deserved a DQ. You win. Stupid kids. But we just ignore the fact that a tournament official, in a state tournament no less, didn’t do their job? 

I'd say this is two separate discussions.

1 - the kids hit from the wrong tees

2 - the tournament screwed up big time

both parties have their own mistakes, one doesn't excuse the other....all this talk implying it's all or nothing one side or the other is silly

(the only thing I don't like, but I understand and accept it anyway, is that the 5th groups onward had help to avoid the same problem the first 4 groups had to accept - that's not a level playing field)

and no tournament volunteer will be fired.....they are volunteers and human also.  It's a lesson learned for everyone involved, not just the kids.

and the world keeps turning

Edited May 18, 2018 by rehmwa

[DeadMan]

18 minutes ago, colin007 said:

So was it definitely a rules official?

The GolfDigest article is a little confusing on that point. In places, it calls the guy a rules official. In other places, it calls him a marshal. Which is kind of an important difference.

If it's actually a rules official that told them to play from the wrong place, it changes the situation for me.

[saevel25]

5 minutes ago, rehmwa said:

(the only thing I don't like, but I understand and accept it anyway, is that the 5th groups onward had help to avoid the same problem the first 4 groups had to accept - that's not a level playing field) 

and no tournament volunteer will be fired.....they are volunteers and human also.  It's a lesson learned for everyone involved, not just the kids.

I would put 95% of the blame on the students. They assumed that the group in front of them knew what was right, even in contradiction to the rules given to them before the start of the round.

Follow the rules sheet. End of story.

[rehmwa]

8 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

I would put 95% of the blame on the students. They assumed that the group in front of them knew what was right, even in contradiction to the rules given to them before the start of the round.

Follow the rules sheet. End of story.

I put 100% blame on the students for the mistakes the students made (If they asked a rules official that might change - dramatically)

I put 100% blame on the organizers for the mistakes they made.

one doesn't cancel the other, it just helps describe the situation more clearly

If one has to insist on the all or nothing type of blame game, then the rules even allow for mistakes and bad info and incompetence of officials - in that, if the player gets bad direction, and he's skeptical enough, he could play a 2nd ball from the other teeing ground and get the issue resolved later.....I'm sure if 12 kids played double balls, the tournament officials would act pretty quickly then for sure.

Edited May 18, 2018 by rehmwa

[krupa]

3 hours ago, rehmwa said:

If one has to insist on the all or nothing type of blame game, then the rules even allow for mistakes and bad info and incompetence of officials - in that, if the player gets bad direction, and he's skeptical enough, he could play a 2nd ball from the other teeing ground and get the issue resolved later.....I'm sure if 12 kids played double balls, the tournament officials would act pretty quickly then for sure.

I feel like this requires a mic drop. 

[saevel25]

3 hours ago, rehmwa said:

If one has to insist on the all or nothing type of blame game, then the rules even allow for mistakes and bad info and incompetence of officials - in that, if the player gets bad direction, and he's skeptical enough, he could play a 2nd ball from the other teeing ground and get the issue resolved later.....I'm sure if 12 kids played double balls, the tournament officials would act pretty quickly then for sure.

One of the first things my golf coach told us in high school was to always play a 2nd ball when you are in doubt about how to proceed with the rules.

Maybe it's also bad coaching.

I always put the final onus on the player. Golf is an individual sport. It's the players responsibility to know the rules. Being allowed to play a 2nd ball, and then get a ruling, there is no situation were a player should end up in this type of disqualification.

All it takes is someone saying, "You know what, lets play a 2nd ball and ask the coaches after the round?"

[krupa]

23 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

All it takes is someone knowing the rule and saying, "You know what, lets play a 2nd ball and ask the coaches after the round?"

And knowing is half the battle.

 

[Nwehrman]

It is just unfortunate they got DQ’d for this. They weren’t sure so they asked and were told incorrect information by a rules official. Sure you can blame the students some for not playing a second ball, but when a tournament official tells you where to hit from why would that even be a thought? 

If it is true that one group was at the blue markers and that same official told them to hit from the reds then that is completely on the official. It’s just an unfortunate situation all around but it does sound like the kids handles it well. 

[iacas]

It has not been established that the volunteer was in fact a “rules official.”

[Asheville]

6 hours ago, Nwehrman said:

It is just unfortunate they got DQ’d for this. They weren’t sure so they asked and were told incorrect information by a rules official. Sure you can blame the students some for not playing a second ball, but when a tournament official tells you where to hit from why would that even be a thought? 

If it is true that one group was at the blue markers and that same official told them to hit from the reds then that is completely on the official. It’s just an unfortunate situation all around but it does sound like the kids handles it well. 

It's not "unfortunate" at all. Golf must be played in accordance with the Rules.

[Nwehrman]

7 minutes ago, Asheville said:

It's not "unfortunate" at all. Golf must be played in accordance with the Rules.

Oh you mean the rules that the tournament official told them? To hit from the reds? That's a really solid post you made.

[Vinsk]

Just now, Nwehrman said:

Oh you mean the rules that the tournament official told them? To hit from the reds? That's a really solid post you made.

The official rules were posted as to play from the Blue Tees. It doesn’t get any easier than that. Blue Tees. Not 172yd marker, not what a marshal said, not what a volunteer said, period. “Sir, M’am our rules sheet clearly says blue tees so I don’t think those red tees are the correct tees to play from.” If the boys played the blue tees and then it was realized the blue tees were not placed where they were meant to be that would just be a glitch in the round but not on the players as they couldn’t change the tees mid-round. 

[Nwehrman]

@Vinsk So what about the group that was at the blue tees and had a TOURNAMENT OFFICIAL tell them to hit from the reds? Does it get any easier than that? Follow the rule sheet or follow what an official tells you to do. That seems like a pretty shitty situation and the fact that you can't understand that is pretty baffling.

Edited May 19, 2018 by Nwehrman

[Vinsk]

44 minutes ago, Nwehrman said:

@Vinsk So what about the group that was at the blue tees and had a TOURNAMENT OFFICIAL tell them to hit from the reds? Does it get any easier than that? Follow the rule sheet or follow what an official tells you to do. That seems like a pretty shitty situation and the fact that you can't understand that is pretty baffling.

Wow. What’s actually baffling is your lack of understanding of this. ‘Play the red tees.’ The rules sheet says to play the Blue ..why are you telling us to play the red? If the ‘official’ told a player to pick his ball up on the green before marking it ...should he do it? These aren’t 8 year olds out there. They’re 17-18 year olds. Follow the rules sheet. Period. When it’s that clear and simple? No listen to an ‘official’ who is going by a score card yardage? Gimme a break. 

Sorry, you’re 100% wrong. It was an unfortunate situation but they would never had been questioned for anything had they played from the BLUE TEES. I don’t care if the USGA President told them to play the reds. Had they simply stated WHAT THEY KNEW THE RULES SHEET STATED this would’ve never happened. What part of that do you not believe or understand?

Edited May 19, 2018 by Vinsk

[Nwehrman]

My lack of understanding? I understand it just fine. Who the hell are they supposed to listen to if not the people in charge of the tournament? Who do you think made this tournaments rule sheet? Probably the tournament officials, you know, the people that told them to hit from where they did. In basketball if you have a question about a rule you ask the ref. In baseball you ask the umpire. The fact that you are okay with a tournament official giving players bad information and then later having them DQ'd is, again, baffling. 

[Vinsk]

You play by the rules. Blue tees. Period. They didn’t. Period. I’m done with you on this.

[Asheville]

33 minutes ago, Nwehrman said:

My lack of understanding? I understand it just fine. Who the hell are they supposed to listen to if not the people in charge of the tournament? Who do you think made this tournaments rule sheet? Probably the tournament officials, you know, the people that told them to hit from where they did. In basketball if you have a question about a rule you ask the ref. In baseball you ask the umpire. The fact that you are okay with a tournament official giving players bad information and then later having them DQ'd is, again, baffling. 

You're correct. You don't understand competitive golf. While you might "understand" noodle it around in the fairway and gimme golf you don't know Conditions of Competitions/Notice to Competitors golf.

Edited May 19, 2018 by Asheville