Amatuers NEVER hit enough club...

[Shindig]

Shin,

While I see what you're saying, I don't think your specific case has to do with club selection. Our brains don't process negatives very well; you're probably focusing on the water. The brain tells your muscles about the water. The muscles send the ball... to the water. Focus on something else. Pick a tree or something beyond the green on the right line. Focus on it, look at it as you come up after practice swings, picture it in your mind when you hit your tee shot.

[pom]

I find this type of comment insulting, similar to people who think a graders hit the driver 300m, b graders, 250m etc.far too simple for me. I would suggest that most amateurs come up short most times because they [pick the club required to make the shot & then do not hit it perfectly.I would also say that 90% of miss hit shots will come up short & only about 5 to 10% will fly long. Maybe its time some of these professionals showed us ameteurs a little respect even if we do not hit the ball as well as they do

[iacas]

So, we should play to make a mistake (mishiting one or two extra clubs) rather than play to hit a good shot (hitting the club you know will do the job if you hit it right)? I just don't get that.

That's not what the pros are saying, but if playing to your mistake gets the ball pin high more often than not, perhaps you should.

If you hit your 7-iron 145 yards 6 times out of 10 and you hit it 155 yards the other four times, what's the distance of your 7-iron? Most trouble on courses is short. I play a course where every green slopes back to front, but even on those I'd rather have a downhill putt OR chip than be playing from a bunker (or the water) short of the green.

I would guess that, for most amatuers, the pros are right. But remember, if you have a 15 or better index, you are better than most amatuers and like any general advice, it may not be applicable to you.

Most of the guys the pros play with - in the pro-am portion of every PGA Tour event - are 15 handicaps or better. I don't have the stats on me, but the average handicap is something like a 10.4 or something.

The average handicap of all men with handicaps in the US can be seen here: http://www.usga.org/playing/handicap..._handicap.html 15 handicaps or better account for 52% of the golfers. In other words, I don't think pros were excluding the 15-or-better crowd. It's who they play with and the majority of golfers regardless.

[Big_M]

WOW... never thought my short rant would generate this much debate.

The problem is there is no "cure all" fix for golf. We all make different mistakes and we all learn and understand the game better as we get older (although it takes some longer than others).

I think what pros are saying certainly is applicable to some or even many golfers. It is NOT however applicable to all of us... and that is my problem... obviously I'm not the only one who gets sick of hearing this from pros, so maybe they should think of something a little less LAZY and a little more INSIGHTFUL to say when asked the age old question of "if you had one tip to give to amatuer what would it be..."

here are some more reasonable answers in my opinion...
-play the shot with the greatest chance of success
-practice as much as you can, and work on trouble areas
-learn to realisticlly assess the strengths and weeknesses of your game
-have fun with practice, play games and challenge yourself
-get fitted for clubs, it will help
-learn the distance you CARRY each of your clubs

and of course there are many other reasonable responces... just don't say we NEVER hit enough club!

I'd wager twenty bucks that if a pro making that comment was standing 160 yards away and was uphill and upwind, and gave me a free shot at him... I would hit that NXT Tour right up his arse!

[Wisco-Kid]

I could not agree more. I never understood that "tip". I mean I think in many cases I would rather be a little short then over shoot the green, at least if your short you tend to have a better look. I would think that most amateurs after being short every shot would be able to figure out on their own that they need more club.....

[iacas]

The problem is there is no "cure all" fix for golf.

Yet this is consistently cited as "the" fix by professionals.

I think what pros are saying certainly is applicable to some or even many golfers.

I think it applies to the vast, vast majority of golfers. This isn't a "some or many" thing. It's a 95% type thing. That's what the pros said, and that's what my experience says as well.

It is NOT however applicable to all of us... and that is my problem...

If it doesn't apply to you, then who cares? Go ahead and feel safe in the knowledge that you've learned something almost nobody else has.

obviously I'm not the only one who gets sick of hearing this from pros, so maybe they should think of something a little less LAZY and a little more INSIGHTFUL to say when asked the age old question of "if you had one tip to give to amatuer what would it be..."

Or perhaps it's the best general tip there is, and it'd be stupid to give any other tip? The tips you listed have various flaws with them which I won't bother to get into.

I'd wager twenty bucks that if a pro making that comment was standing 160 yards away and was uphill and upwind, and gave me a free shot at him... I would hit that NXT Tour right up his arse!

Sure you would.

And like I said, perhaps you're an exception, but it's a tip that applies to the vast majority of golfers, doesn't require any more effort, time, or expense on their part, and could potentially do the most to improve their scores. It's a good tip. Be the exception if you want (you probably aren't even the exception as much as you think you are), but ranting against a tip like this is a waste of time. By definition, they know more about it than you do.

[giantbear]

The average handicap of all men with handicaps in the US can be seen here:

Interesting considering the average score has been 100 for many many years.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/05/24/news/golf25.php

[Guest]

Methinks Erik is spot on here. I seem to recall Pelz (maybe it was someone else) doing a study on this. Golfers, even good ones, consistently think we hit the ball farther than we really do. One day I decided to take that professional advice we get tired of hearing to heart and add one club to every shot unless it was ridiculously wrong to do so. It worked. Absolutely knowing you have a club that will get you to the target means less tension, less uncertainty. You don't have to hit a perfect shot. My game inside 130 yards took a major leap forward when I quit trying to push my wedges. I will routinely hit a smooth choked-down 9-iron from 90 or 100 yards if there's no trouble in front of the hole and there's no need for elevation. Two years ago I would have thought this crazy . . . old man's golf. Why should I do that when I hit my 9 135 yards? Then my teacher started me on that age-old ladder drill of using increasingly stronger clubs to reach the same target. Amazing things begin to happen when tension is reduced and you don't have to hit it flush. Anyway, just a thought.

[MountainHip]

I'm willing to bet that most of you guys are wrong and that the announcers and pros are right.

Bang on. (a little about me) In 2004 I was a 20 handicap. In 2005 I was a 12-15 handicap. In 2006 I was a 9 handicap. In 2007 I stayed at 9. The question is what is your advice for amateurs. The question itself groups amateurs. The pro is not grouping amateurs. They are simply answering what is asked of them. If you take less club, make a more controlled swing you will have less of a miss hit. You have to play your shots, with a "bail out" in mind. Unless I am mistaken most amateurs do not hit most shots perfectly or to an expected outcome. If I know that I miss my 5 iron to the right 60% of the time, I am going to aim for that miss. But not so much that I will be in trouble if I hit it straight. It's like when someone who slices 90% of the time off the tee, then hits one straight into the woods. "The dreaded straight ball" Would you aim down the middle if you knew you would slice? If I have 120 to the pin. I would rather hit a solid 80% 9 iron, then a 100% pitching wedge. An 80% swing, has less a chance of being miss hit then a 100% swing. Simply put, Pro's take more club than their full potential, why shouldn't amateurs? Listen to the distances, and club selection next time you are watching golf on TV. Most really good golfers I know, and have played with are able to hit a 9 iron 180 yards, but, then I hear pros on TV are hitting 9 irons from 150. Think about that. Also take baseball for example, are the batters looking for a homerun swing everytime? No! They are looking to put the ball in play. FWIW: **Best thread on this forum in a long time**

[iacas]

Interesting considering the average score has been 100 for many many years.

Thing is, not every golfer has a handicap. The "average score is 100" includes golfers without handicaps.

The handicap table is, by its very nature, going to self-select the better golfers because the guy who plays four times a year isn't going to bother getting a handicap.

I seem to recall Pelz (maybe it was someone else) doing a study on this. Golfers, even good ones, consistently think we hit the ball farther than we really do. One day I decided to take that professional advice we get tired of hearing to heart and add one club to every shot unless it was ridiculously wrong to do so. It worked.

I hadn't thought of the Pelz study, but now that you mention it, yeah, I think you're right about it.

Absolutely knowing you have a club that will get you to the target means less tension, less uncertainty. You don't have to hit a perfect shot. My game inside 130 yards took a major leap forward when I quit trying to push my wedges. I will routinely hit a smooth choked-down 9-iron from 90 or 100 yards if there's no trouble in front of the hole and there's no need for elevation. Two years ago I would have thought this crazy . . . old man's golf. Why should I do that when I hit my 9 135 yards?

One of the things I'm fond of telling people who are struggling is that, inside of 150 yards, I almost NEVER take a full swing. Probably less than five times last year. I've hit 7-iron from 80 yards because I envision it basically as a long chip, but more often it's as you describe: grip down a little, take a 3/4 swing, and get the ball back to the hole, even if it's an 8-iron from as far out as I can hit a PW.

Simply put, Pro's take more club than their full potential, why shouldn't amateurs?

That's a good point. Pros always talk about amateurs swinging at full speed, but they rarely do. No need. That's what the lower lofted clubs are for! :)

[wachesawgolfer]

The article mentioned by Giantbear about the average score of 100 is an excellent read. I also think that if many folks had to strictly follow all rules without the various, two off the first, gimmes, "that makes your putt good" from various two or three best balls type matches and picking up after 5, 6, 7 or 8 strokes and capping it there, almost everyone's score would be surprisingly higher. A single digit handicapper takes only a double. Boy that sure helps the score on a bad day. Sorry about the off topic.

[kdubspoon]

I'm tempted to say that if all golfers accepted reality we'd pick a hobby that's just a little safer to our mental health, such as plucking quills from feral porcupines.

lamebums : I don't know you and I am new to the forum, but I took the liberty of "sigging" your brilliance. See below. Well said sir, well said. kdubspoon

[lamebums]

"I crown myself King of the Sig...and dare anybody to challenge me..."

I've got a new thought on this, though - people being consistently short of the green is sort of like slow play. Everyone talks about it, yet they all deny doing it themselves...but it keeps happening, anyway.