The 14th Club

[gbogey]

42 minutes ago, djake said:

I am strongly leaning towards a 60 degree wedge for this club.  I am envisioning more ways to use it then a 2 hybrid now.@klineka

42 minutes ago, djake said:

You sound like my wife 😁 "Do you really need a 14th club".  

 

In my experience a 2H is going to be very similar to your 5W.  Not sure you will gain much.

And yes, you do need a 14th club.  And a 15th, 16th, and 17th in order to change things up. 😀

Edited March 6, 2019 by gbogey

[phillyk]

I suggest go 60 and buy new. Wedges are some of the only clubs that are necessary to buy new because of the grooves. The 60 is mostly used for those one hop stops from around the green. Its a lot harder to do that with bad grooves. In regards to bounce, go for higher. Even with hard ground, high bounce is fine, and in the rough higher bounce is better for sure.

I don’t think its really a question or not for whether to have all 14 clubs. You might as well have something that can fill a gap in the game, even if its a small one.

Edited March 6, 2019 by phillyk

[iacas]

11 hours ago, klineka said:

I'd choose the 10, but it should be based on what course conditions you typically play (soft, firm, etc) and if you are steeper or more shallow. 

I don't really agree with that.

[klineka]

4 minutes ago, iacas said:

I don't really agree with that.

I always thought that less bounce was better for firmer conditions and more bounce was better for softer conditions.

Is that just another golf myth?

Is it because bounce can be manipulated by the player and really skilled wedge players can adjust the bounce to the course condition for the shot in front of them?

[iacas]

7 minutes ago, klineka said:

I always thought that less bounce was better for firmer conditions and more bounce was better for softer conditions.

Is that just another golf myth?

Yes.

8 minutes ago, klineka said:

Is it because bounce can be manipulated by the player and really skilled wedge players can adjust the bounce to the course condition for the shot in front of them?

It's more because there's a ton more to how a club interacts with the ground than one number: the angle of the bounce.

 

[ncates00]

On 3/4/2019 at 1:51 PM, djake said:

Over the last 4 years I have been updating my clubs and played with 12 clubs during this updating process.  Well this year I want to round out the bag and I am looking for input for that final 14th club.

I bought a 48 degree wedge as the 13th club and filled the gap between my PW and 52 degree wedge.  I am also returning my son's 4 Hybrid and will be buying a Tour Edge CBX 119 22 degree loft hybrid.

Currently this is what is in the bag.  Driver, 5 Wood, 4 Hybrid, 5 Iron, 6 Iron, 7 Iron, 8 Iron, 9 Iron, PW, wedges 48, 52 & 56 plus The Putter.

I have spent and will continue to spend a lot of time at the range in order to maintain and further develop the love affair I have with my Driver and when I don't hit the Driver off the tee I do like my 5 Wood. So I am not sold on getting a 3 Wood.  Plus I have never been able to hit a 3 Wood off the deck so it feels like a waste of money.

All ideas/opinions are appreciated.

If it helps my 150 club is an 8 iron and my swing speed with the Driver is 106.

Thank you

Get on a good launch monitor and get your carry numbers.  Fill the gap you need.  I try to get about 12-15 yard gaps through the bag.  Seems like your 52 to PW is too far apart.  Maybe want to check out a 50 or bend it to where you need it.  Again, book an extended session to gap test your carry numbers on a good launch monitor.

[Casualgolfer]

My vote would not be toward another wedge. I would go with a driving iron if your comfortable with one. Something that can reach out as much or more than your 5w and feel more controllable.

[djake]

On ‎3‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 8:30 AM, klineka said:

I'd choose the 10, but it should be based on what course conditions you typically play (soft, firm, etc) and if you are steeper or more shallow. 

Here is a thread that talks about bounce for wedges. The bounce advice in there for a 58 would also apply to a 60.

 

Thank you for adding this thread.  I read thru the entire thread and it was very informative.

So now based on this I should be looking at 60 degree 10 bounce with Mizuno.  That is the biggest(?) most bounce they have in the S8.

I am a big believer in having all of my wedges the same, with that in mind Mizuno only seams to make a 60 with a 6 or 10 bounce.  Should I look at this one wedge differently and maybe get a different brand that makes a 60 with a higher bounce? 

On ‎3‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 8:46 PM, ncates00 said:

Get on a good launch monitor and get your carry numbers.  Fill the gap you need.  I try to get about 12-15 yard gaps through the bag.  Seems like your 52 to PW is too far apart.  Maybe want to check out a 50 or bend it to where you need it.  Again, book an extended session to gap test your carry numbers on a good launch monitor.

I agree with you.  That is why I added a 48 degree wedge last month.  I have yet to use it because of the 2 million feet of snow still on the ground. I will get to use it at the end of the month when I go to South Carolina for 4 days of golf.

[djake]

On ‎3‎/‎8‎/‎2019 at 5:48 AM, Casualgolfer said:

My vote would not be toward another wedge. I would go with a driving iron if your comfortable with one. Something that can reach out as much or more than your 5w and feel more controllable.

I have considered that as well, but I wonder how often I would use it in comparison to a 60? 

With my Driver 5 Wood combination I can give myself that chance to reach most Par 5s that are 500 to 550 yards.  I can comfortably really get after a 5 Wood and I can comfortably ease off of it as well as dictated.  It is a club that has been one of my favorites all of my golfing days. 

My only issue is wind and the 5 Wood, I get it up pretty good in the air so a club that I can hit long distance that flights lower is tempting.

I still think in an entire golf season I would use a 60 degree wedge more often in the season and in a round.

[DocP]

 

On ‎3‎/‎4‎/‎2019 at 12:51 PM, djake said:

Over the last 4 years I have been updating my clubs and played with 12 clubs during this updating process.  Well this year I want to round out the bag and I am looking for input for that final 14th club.

I bought a 48 degree wedge as the 13th club and filled the gap between my PW and 52 degree wedge.  I am also returning my son's 4 Hybrid and will be buying a Tour Edge CBX 119 22 degree loft hybrid.

Currently this is what is in the bag.  Driver, 5 Wood, 4 Hybrid, 5 Iron, 6 Iron, 7 Iron, 8 Iron, 9 Iron, PW, wedges 48, 52 & 56 plus The Putter.

I have spent and will continue to spend a lot of time at the range in order to maintain and further develop the love affair I have with my Driver and when I don't hit the Driver off the tee I do like my 5 Wood. So I am not sold on getting a 3 Wood.  Plus I have never been able to hit a 3 Wood off the deck so it feels like a waste of money.

All ideas/opinions are appreciated.

If it helps my 150 club is an 8 iron and my swing speed with the Driver is 106.

Thank you

 Great post!  My numbers (driver swing speed 106-108 range and 150 yard club 8 or 9 iron) are very similar to yours and I currently carry only 13 clubs.  I game a 10.5 degree M5 driver, 15 degree M2 3-wood, 3 and 5 M2 hybrids and 6-PW TM P790 irons.  My other wedges are 52 and 58 degree Vokey, and a 64 degree TM Hi-Toe.  I strongly believe that having more wedge options is the way to go.  No matter how good you are with a standard range SW (56ish degrees) I think a skilled golfer can benefit from having a 60 degree or higher loft wedge. 

I can understand no wanting a 3-wood if you can't hit it effectively.  I struggle with mine but refuse to pull it from the bag in the belief that I will (with practice) develop the ability to hit it off the deck more with better results and someday be able to hit it off the tee box at a higher GIR percentage than my Driver.  Neither is the case now.

I would recommend you consider one of the following options for your 14th club.

1. 60 degree or higher wedge to help with those short sided situations we all leave ourselves in too often.  My 64 degree hi-toe really has helped me improve that part of my game and is a great club for shorter distance sand shots as well.

2. Driving iron might be a good choice if you currently hit the longer irons in your bag well.  I am going to look at the new GAPR offerings from TM to possibly give me that go to club for tee shots on tight holes or when I want to hit a lower trajectory shot (my hybrids and your 5-wood probably fly too high to be the best choice on windy days).

3.  A left handed mid-iron to handle those rare but aggravating and score hurting situations where a right handed punch out isn't possible and a drop or whiff/dribble result is likely.

Good luck and let us know what you decide on!

[Piz]

Trees, bushes (i.e. briers), rocks, and other swing impediments, abound in my area.  I carry a short, left-handed, club for those occasions when a pitch is preferable to a drop.  It doesn't happen all that often; but it happens often enough.

[djake]

First -  Thank you, all of you for your input regarding this.  I enjoyed reading all of your suggestions.  Sorry for the delay in updating what I finally decided on what to do with "That 14th Club" it has been a very hectic year with very little golf to date.  But that is changing now.

The Wife stopped me from ordering the CBX-119, in fact I got a rather short lecture from her regarding it.  She told me "to go back to my Fitter and get fit for the 13th club and not just buy what you think will work.  Get what will work." I will admit I was trying to short cut, get a hybrid and be done with it.

13th Club Fitting Session

Finally on July 3rd I get into a fitting session with the same person I have been using over the years.  I will say it is nice using the same fitter over and over because he knows what is going on with my clubs and it is fun because of the relationship build over time.

At my fitting session I told him that between 5 iron and Driver he had free reign to find they clubs that worked best for me in filling the gaps.  Because of this forum and suggestions @Casualgolfer and others I wanted to look at Utility Irons/driving irons as well as hybrids.  

It had been 2 years since I had been fitted for a club and the company had upgraded to Trackman, wow what an addicting piece of equipment that is.  I could not believe the information that it puts out, it made a significant difference in telling me what club fit my gap after my 5 Iron vs what club I thought would fit me after my 5 Iron.  Here are two clubs of the many we tested.

Hybrid - Muzuno CLK 23 degree.  Went wen thru a couple shaft changes during this process and wow I like this club.  Supper easy to hit.  Extremely accurate feedback where the ball was on the club face, just a wonderful club. 

Trackman results

Club Speed 98.6 mph - Ball Speed 142.4 mph - Smash Factor 1.44 - Launch Angle 10.0 - Spin rate 4697 - Carry 210.1 - Total 225.2 - Height 83' - landing angle 40.5 - Attack Angle -0.4

Then we tried Utility Irons - here are the results from the other finalist.

Utility Iron Srixon 20 degree - we went thru a couple changes with this club as well.

Trackman results

Club Speed 96.1 mph - Ball Speed 124.2 - Smash Factor 1.29 - Launch Angle 16.3 - Spin Rate 4850 - Carry 182.0 - Total 193.4 - Height 97 - Landing Angle 45.8 - Attack Angle 0.5

My Fitter flat out stated, Srixon Utility is the best club to fill after my 5 Iron.  He noted the Landing Angle for coming into greens and the ability to hold better. As well as being the best club to fill after for yardage. Plus he noted the enjoyment I was having hitting this club during the fitting session.   

13th Club Final Choice - Srixon 20 Degree with Recoil 95 F5 Shaft and Winn DryTec Mid Size Grip

I am very excited about this, while in my earlier posts I stated my 5 Iron is my 185 Club as of now it is running 175.  That is not unusual for me for the limited amount of golf I have been playing.  I go down 1 full club until I am playing more.  As I start playing more this summer everything points to my distances going up 10 more yards - BUT - if they don't no big deal, the upper gap still fits just right.

Other 13th Clubs tested - Exotics CBX-119, Ping Crossover, TaylorMade GAPR low flight.  If you are interested I would give my review of these clubs.

The 14th Club

Since this post started out about what to do with that 14th club I am happy to report that I also purchased that club on July 3rd.

My Fitter and I spent a nice amount of time talking about what 14th club I should look at getting.  He had me hit some lower lofted Hybrids as they were flying lower then my 5 Wood.  He flat out told me not to replace my Wishon 5 Wood as he could not make a club that would out perform it.  We talked about a 3 Wood and he challenged me to start marking up a score card on how often I would use either a 3 Wood or a 60 Degree Wedge.  I told him I have already done that.  With the money I have spent and getting fit for a Driver I am going to hit that off of the Tee.  Flat out, it is what I practice with and am always working on mastering.  Plus with all of the data stating be as long as possible off the tee for lower scoring why give up 20 yards with a 3 Wood,  He totally agreed.  With my 5 Wood that is my 220 yard club and when I have to reach out and touch someone at 240 yards I can do that with my 5 Wood.

Wishon 929 5 Wood Trackman Results

Club Speed 100.2 mph - Ball Speed 137.9 - Smash Factor 1.38 - Launch Angle 14.4 - Spin Rate 4010 - Carry 214.5 - Total 228.2 - Height 107 - Landing Angle 45.6 - Attack Angle -0.3

14th Club Choice - Mizuno T7 60/10 Wedge! and I am really excited to report I got it for $77.99!!  Brand NEW.

@klineka @David in FL my fitter pointed out many of the same things as you stated in getting a 60 Degree wedge, with fun learning to hit this club right up there.  He stated that I will use this club a lot more then a 3 Wood and I agree. Plus if the bounce on this club does not work I can bring it back and get 100% store credit towards a different wedge and bounce set up.

Everyone who contributed, I really appreciated!  I took your advice and spent time researching clubs to be informed before purchasing, I even spent time looking a a let handed club as was pointed out. 

I posted my Trackman results because to me it is super cool.  I also posted if anyone wants to point out issues and how to resolve them.  I really get the ball up in the air and in high wind I either score really well or really bad.

With that in mind, yes I see a 15th Club in the near future.  I am looking at getting a Mizuno CLK hybrid for me to play on high wind days.  You may have noticed that my 5 Wood peaks out 20' higher then the CLK hybrid.  It just kills me in the wind.  To have a club that I can switch out and stay lower is a must, not a want (in case my wife reads this)

Sorry about the long follow up post - 

In conclusion -

No you cannot have to many wedges 🙂

No 14 clubs are NEVER enough 🙂 that's why my Ping Pioneer holds 15 clubs.  Who needs rules when the gear is this much fun 🙂 

@iacas I would like a "college course" on bounce.  Thanks for the input, but steer me into an area of more info please.  Thanks 

In case anyone follows up to my last post, I will respond in time.  I am going golfing now with my wife and daughter.  My daughter has decided to pick up the game!! I super excited that she is 🙂