Can't hit with a full swing

[chip n run]

Hey rocker - I've been down that same road.  Being age 62, I don't have the flexability to get the shaft parallel to the ground at the top anymore.  And that's OK - I just have to accept I cannot hit the same distances I once could.  But my mind wants me to get parallel by letting my wrists break down at the top.  Very uncontrolled feeling, and shots that lacked distance or were fat.  So, a tip I saw that's really helped me with my new shorter backswing is to have my thumbs pointing up at the 'top'.  Much better feeling and crisper shots.

[LefyPapa]

I agree with you...

I play to just over a 9 handicap my backswing has no wrist cock (of significance). There isn't much of a forearm roll. Just a smooth swing back and a smooth swing through the ball.

My hands never get any higher than chest height. I swing a "Y" back and a "Y" through the ball...

Trail hand's trigger finger (index) gives a little steady pressure on the forward swing.

My grip is unusual (single axis and the butt of the grip grip is in the center of the lead palm).

A 43" inch Nike driver, 13* sends the ball about 200 yards. High and straight. At 62 it is fun to enjoy golf. At 46 I was on the Merry-go-round trying to hit the 275 yard drive. Read five dozen books, a thousand posts... watched twenty DVD's, took lessons. Some positives, but rare and none lasted.

Not flexible, still strong and fit, but slow moving (with the limited range of motion). The underhanded, "Half Swing" I employ allows me to beat the crap out of most of the folks I play with.

My Y to Y swing doesn't change for the short shots; just lower the amplitude and make the same motion.

Do what you can do and have fun. Instead of attempting to do what you cannot do (and have very little fun).

[gregsandiego]

You are standing in a clock. 3:00 is to your left, 9:00 to your right, and 12:00 above your head.

I think you are meaning you take your hands back to 9:00, hopefully with the club shaft at 90* to your left arm. I call this the first "L". I got my wife, son, and daughter started out by learning to hit the ball "L to L", with the second L being hands pointing to 3:00 on the follow through.

As for you idea of taking shortened swings, absolutely it is better to achieve solid contact with a short swing first, and then build up the backswing length from there. Many years ago I played a full 2 years not taking the club past 10:00, and hit the ball great.

I read this old post and think this plan sounds a lot better than struggling to make a dramatic change. My golf teacher would have me going for full swings and spend weeks with bad hits.Can I really just deal with my short swing and GRADUALLY just increase the length?

[9wood]

I have been practicing at the range for weeks now and it may be time for a lesson or two.  I got most of my instruction from a friend that is a good golfer and you-tube.  If I hit, using an iron, with my backswing going no more than 3 o'clock, I can hit the ball really straight and far (usually 140 - 150 w/7 iron).  Once I bring the backswing any higher, I tend to hit the ball to the right and can lose as much as 40 yards.  I know it's tough to give advice without seeing my swing, or lack of it, but if I start at the 3 and bring my backswing up gradually, is that a good way to work on the swing?

I was told that my swing is much faster than my backswing and I should slow down and make everything nice and even.  Any suggestions are welcome.

May I ask your age?

[9wood]

Hey rocker - I've been down that same road.  Being age 62, I don't have the flexability to get the shaft parallel to the ground at the top anymore.  And that's OK - I just have to accept I cannot hit the same distances I once could.  But my mind wants me to get parallel by letting my wrists break down at the top.  Very uncontrolled feeling, and shots that lacked distance or were fat.  So, a tip I saw that's really helped me with my new shorter backswing is to have my thumbs pointing up at the 'top'.  Much better feeling and crisper shots.

Like you I too lack the flexibility to make the full swing and now at age 66 I have gone to a half swing or less which gives me better control and accuracy.

I find it funny to watch younger golfers. Two weeks ago there was a four some ahead of me comprised of four young men probably in their mid 30's and they were talking it up with each other about how they were going to crush the ball 275 yards. So they take out their Big Bertha drivers and each take their turn teeing off. All four of them either push the ball way off to the left or sliced it to the right. None of the four even hit the fairway and I don't think their balls traveled more than a 175 yards. I waited for them to work down the fairway a bit and asked my partner if he thought the foursome was far enough down the fairway for me to safely tee off. He said, I think it's safe to go ahead. I teed off using my 3 wood and my ball floated out into the left side of the fairway 220 yards while the young foursome ahead of me looked back and gave me the thumbs up. When we met up with them again on another hole they asked me what club I used to which I replied, I thought I'd play the safe shot with my 3 wood for a layup. The look on their faces was precious.

[Hatchman]

It was suggested I start a thread on full swing but notice some relatable comments. I too have limited mobility - and turn restriction from numerous surgeries and a spine cyst but am working to increase flexibility thus turn better. I'll keep my eye on posters comments for ideas and advanced members materials and/or videos I can use.

[Ernest Jones]

It was suggested I start a thread on full swing but notice some relatable comments. I too have limited mobility - and turn restriction from numerous surgeries and a spine cyst but am working to increase flexibility thus turn better. I'll keep my eye on posters comments for ideas and advanced members materials and/or videos I can use.

Just start a My Swing thread. Randomly trying things you come across in threads may or may not help you, but having your priority piece identified will be a way more effective way to make lasting changes to your swing.

[Hatchman]

It's been a work in progress with my swing coach Ernest Jones but I do appreciate the feedback. Astute members have also pointed out from my Avitar pictures that I am an arm swinger and don't fully rotate. Again good observation and what material and work I need. I basically will read it or watch at night it then take it to the range or course and try and practice it. There are some moves that hurt my body but working on that also. TY.

[Robb]

You are struggling with one of the most common problems, with which the vast majority of golfers struggle. That is the "transition area" between swinging the club DOWN and DELIVERING  the club through impact. 

At the 3 o'clock position all you need do is rotate your hands, arms and club face back to square through impact. It's pretty simple. But raising the arms to the top is entirely different, because most golfers "open their arms, hands and club face" and now, need to swing DOWN, then deliver the club into the ball. 

Getting comfortable in this "transition area" is tough. The arms and hands swing down before you can rotate and close the face of the club, thus everything goes right. Right?

There are 3 things you can do.

1. Begin trying to make 'EASY' 3/4 swings.

2. As your left hand comes down to approximately one foot before the ball, allow your left "pinky knuckle" to tuck and rotate your left thumb down and roll over to square the back of your left hand with the club face. 

3. Assist your left hand rotation, by also rotating or rolling your right thumb down and through impact. 

You may find you will start drawing the ball and thus need to swing out, across your target line.

The idea is to rotate everything around the butt of your club grip.

I do this and my typical 9-iron is 150, 7-iron is 175, 5-iron is 200 yds. 

[iacas]

8 hours ago, Robb said:

2. As your left hand comes down to approximately one foot before the ball, allow your left "pinky knuckle" to tuck and rotate your left thumb down and roll over to square the back of your left hand with the club face. 

3. Assist your left hand rotation, by also rotating or rolling your right thumb down and through impact. 

I don't suggest doing that. Virtually every good player I've ever taught, myself, those I've talked to, etc. feel as though the "release" or the "squaring" of the clubface comes pretty naturally, not by something you're "making" happen.

If you have to manually square the clubface, you've likely done something wrong earlier in the swing somewhere that's got you in a bad position.

Also, most people who slice the ball already have the clubface pointed left of the target line at impact anyway.

I don't know what the OP said since it's over a year old.

And the OP hasn't been on the site since 2012.

[Robb]

Yes, I know what is typically proposed and taught regarding squaring the club and the release, which I believe, is also WHY most golfers hit short and right.

 

What may come natural to some golfers ie., squaring the hands...is not at all natural to the majority. Most, pull their lead elbow through impact with the club face wide open and never come close to developing any significant speed, much less hitting the ball in the fairway.

 

Using the technique I described yesterday, I hit a 318 yd drive, a 309 yd drive and other 280 to 290 yd drives. And I am fast approaching 68 years old.

 

Not only that, I really don't need to put much effort into it.

Robb

[Kalnoky]

Fascinating necrothread.

Making a full shoulder turn is one of the biggest areas I personally need to work on. I almost feel like you have to make the full turn in order to unwind in the right sequence. There are two limiting factors for me, 1., back stiffness (it takes me forever to warm up/loosen up) and 2., fear of swaying/hitting fat. 

I can play my irons just fine with truncated swings, even if they are about 90%. However I know that until I feel confident making a full turn I will never hit my driver well. 

if someone has a drill I'd be interested to know it. 

[iacas]

35 minutes ago, Robb said:

Yes, I know what is typically proposed and taught regarding squaring the club and the release, which I believe, is also WHY most golfers hit short and right.

 

What may come natural to some golfers ie., squaring the hands...is not at all natural to the majority. Most, pull their lead elbow through impact with the club face wide open and never come close to developing any significant speed, much less hitting the ball in the fairway.

 

Using the technique I described yesterday, I hit a 318 yd drive, a 309 yd drive and other 280 to 290 yd drives. And I am fast approaching 68 years old.

 

Not only that, I really don't need to put much effort into it.

Robb

I disagree on several levels.

1. Most golfers have an error earlier on in their swing that causes faults at impact.

2. Most golfers gain setting speed when their sequencing improves.

3. It's literally impossible to tell your body to do something a foot before impact and have it occur before about mid-follow-through. Your last chance is just after transition.

4. Rolling your wrists is too timing sensitive.

5. Most bad golfers (who slice) have a clubface pointing left of the target at impact.

[Robb]

With all due respect, I agree and disagree.

Most golfers do have swing faults in their swings which are amplified in their downswing. 

Proper sequencing does increase swing speed.

Swinging with a driver at 110, 115 or 120 mph does require near perfect timing.

Learning to rotate your wrists and hands about 2 ft before impact by starting with EASY 3/4 SWINGS on the driving range, however, is not that hard. I started my original thread comment talking about how many golfers struggle with the "transition" between swinging down and then delivering the club head into the ball.

If you watch super-slow motion video of virtually any long drive competitor or my favorite golfer, Freddie Couples you'll see him rotating his right hand just before impact. 

Robb

[Hacker James]

9 minutes ago, Robb said:

With all due respect, I agree and disagree.

Most golfers do have swing faults in their swings which are amplified in their downswing. 

Proper sequencing does increase swing speed.

Swinging with a driver at 110, 115 or 120 mph does require near perfect timing.

Learning to rotate your wrists and hands about 2 ft before impact by starting with EASY 3/4 SWINGS on the driving range, however, is not that hard. I started my original thread comment talking about how many golfers struggle with the "transition" between swinging down and then delivering the club head into the ball.

If you watch super-slow motion video of virtually any long drive competitor or my favorite golfer, Freddie Couples you'll see him rotating his right hand just before impact. 

Robb

Martin Chuck recently demonstrated, that although it only appears as the right wrist is rotated. He showed that the right arm still "covered" the left right after impact. This is not to say that Couples and others do not do exactly as you state. 

[Robb]

Respectfully, I don't examine every golfers wrist action and my comment was intended to address a problem wherein the original questioner said they were having difficulty closing the club face when making a full swing.

But, I must admit, my takeaway and wrist cock follows the teachings of (the late) Long Drive Champion, Mike Dunaway. I hinge my right hand at the wrist as opposed to "cocking" my wrists at the top. Then in the down swing I only need to rotate my right hand 1/4 turn. 

I DO need to be careful. A little too early and I'll go left. But it doesn't require any more practice than competitive darts, pool or other sports.

Robb

[Robb]

Hi guys!

I'm almost 68 and I suffer from a football knee and broken lower back, from my younger and seemingly invincible days. Every time I go to the range, I'm not really sure I can make a half swing...but I do. 

In fact that is how I start whether I'm at the range or on the first tee. But one key to a longer swing is NEVER RESTRICT YOU KNEES OR HIPS.. Allow your left heel to rise off the ground.

I am a student of (the late) Mike Dunaway, who believed the center of the golf swing, around which everything else rotates, is the TOP VERTEBRAE at the top of your backbone. Mike actually taught, that you could slide your hips and rotate. The only point in the swing you need to keep centered was the TOP VERTEBRAE.

Another move that will allow you to reach parallel to the ground (and even as far as John Daly) is to let your trailing elbow "fly". 

Most long drive champs do.

Robb

[iacas]

2 hours ago, Robb said:

Learning to rotate your wrists and hands about 2 ft before impact by starting with EASY 3/4 SWINGS on the driving range, however, is not that hard. I started my original thread comment talking about how many golfers struggle with the "transition" between swinging down and then delivering the club head into the ball.

You literally cannot start something "two feet before impact." The point of no return exists well before that point. Heck, let's say you try to do something five feet before the ball, if the clubhead is moving even an average of 80 MPH (about 120 feet per second) through that five feet, that's all of 42 milliseconds to do what you're asking. Averaging 100 MPH (146.667 feet per second) over the last two feet gives you less than 14 milliseconds.

Your body literally cannot send a signal fast enough from your brain to your hands to get them to do something. The "point of no return" for that is shortly after transition.

You have stumbled upon a feel. That doesn't mean it's really what's happening, but I don't doubt that the "feel" works for you sometimes.

Furthermore, as I said, most golfers who slice already deliver the clubface pointing left of the target line at impact.

I know a thing or two, Robb.  You're welcome to discuss things, and ask questions - I encourage both, in fact - but let's strive to offer more than "I know it works because I do it" or something like that.

43 minutes ago, Robb said:

I am a student of (the late) Mike Dunaway, who believed the center of the golf swing, around which everything else rotates, is the TOP VERTEBRAE at the top of your backbone. Mike actually taught, that you could slide your hips and rotate. The only point in the swing you need to keep centered was the TOP VERTEBRAE.

We'd be pretty close to agreeing on that, generally speaking.